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Thread: M1 Garand gas system and cast

  1. #1
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    M1 Garand gas system and cast

    Very new to the Garand. I might have a chance to by one. Do you have to do anything to the gas system to get cast loads to cycle reliably? Sounds like the 311299 and 4895 is a good starting place.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
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  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Don't need to do anything. #311299 and 36 grains of IMR4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget with a 1-grain Dacron lose fill tucked into the case neck is a good place to start. Increase the charge if necessary to get reliable function. A CMP rebuild with new stiff springs may require 40 grains until it has run in a bit, then you can drop back to 36-38 grains.

    Larry Gibson has posted lots on the Garand.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Thank you Outpost. Are small base dies needed for loading the Garand?
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  4. #4
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    Small base dies are not needed for the M1 Rifle or any other milspec rifle chamber. I would recommend Standard RCBS X-die for sizing as it eliminates case stretching/lengthening due to FL sizing and the need to trim.

    You are correct in the 311299 and 4895 as being friendly for the m1 Rifle. Outpost75's advise is excellent as usual. Couple tips; load the enbloc's so the top round is on the right side, makes loading it easier into the magazine. Also keep the knife edge of the hand down in front of the oprod handle as you push the enbloc into the magazine with the thumb. That way if the oprod prematurely closes it pushes the hand along with the thumb out of the way of the very fast closing bolt.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Thank you.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  6. #6
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    What would be some key things to look for to make sure the rifle has not been damaged due to shooting improper ammo?
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waco View Post
    What would be some key things to look for to make sure the rifle has not been damaged due to shooting improper ammo?
    Find a gunsmith or armorer having an operating rod profile gage. Too hot loads with slow-burning powders can bend the op rod, which is expensive to replace. If not seriously bent a skilled armorer can straighten to conform to the gage. Check tab under up rod handle for damage. If rod jumps track therein lies a clue. Remove lead deposits on face of piston with Kroil and 000 steel wool. Scrub gas cylinder with .410 shotgun brush and Kroil. Ok to remove gas cylinder plug to scrub cylinder, but leave gas cylinder lock alone.
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  8. #8
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    Waco, I have been shooting a lot of cast in my M1.
    My ball equivalent load with 150 gr jacketed bullets is 48 gr of 4064.
    My cast load is 32gr of 4064 with 1 gr dacron as per Larry Gibson.
    I have tried a few different bullet weights and profiles and they all give me 100% cycling with this load.
    I have been shooting H&G #20 and 311291.
    These rifle are a blast to shoot with ball equivalent or cast loads.
    My grandsons love shooting the cast loads.
    I can hardly keep enough ammo loaded for them...dale

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dale2242 View Post
    ……..My cast load is 32gr of 4064 with 1 gr dacron as per Larry Gibson.
    ……..I have been shooting H&G #20 ….
    Dale, I'm interested in your results with the H&G #20. I have that mold and use it in my 1903. I keep velocity down to around 1500fps for best accuracy (as recommended for the Squibb). A couple of quick questions: What velocity are you getting with your load? Average group size (100yds)? What is your COAL?

    For the OP, I also shoot cast in my Garand. Like others here, I've had good success with the usual - IMR-4895 and the 311299 (size .311). No leading issues at all, either the barrel or the gas system.

    Semper Fi

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Or.... you can buy a spare gas plug, drill out the valve, and use that for cast loads. Drawback is that it will not cycle at all. Plus side is that you won't hurt the op rod no matter what you load, and won't toss hot brass at your neighbor at the shooting range.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  11. #11
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    avogunner, To answer your questions:
    I have not chronographed my load as yet. Been meaning to do that. Procrastination is one of my strong points. I will let you know as soon as I do.
    I have only shot targets at 50 yds. Groups are holding around 2" with issue sights and 78 year old eyes. No trouble hitting a 6" plate at 110+ yds if you do your part.
    COAL is 3.050. The bullet was seated to just cover the upper lube ring. It looks short but feeds and cycles fine.
    I have a lot of linotype so I have been casting my rifle bullet with 50/50- WW/ lino sized .309.
    Lube is NRA 50/50. No leading what so ever.
    Last edited by dale2242; 05-12-2020 at 06:09 AM.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master waco's Avatar
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    Any up or down side to using H instead of IMR 4895? I have 12-15 pounds of the H variety.
    The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
    Proverbs 1:7

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waco View Post
    Any up or down side to using H instead of IMR 4895? I have 12-15 pounds of the H variety.
    Modern H4895 is "short-cut" measures easier through progressive machines like the Dillon, but is slightly faster than IMR of a few years ago. Difference about 1 grain in .30-'06.

    The pre-1976 DuPont product and military pull-down of that period pre-1976 was slower still and compares more closely to modern IMR4064, RL15 or Varget. All good but fire charge establishment over chronograph if you don't hav e pressure tested data.

    I find 46.5 grains in the '06 with Sierra 175MK in LC cases max. load for the Garand.

    With older LC pulldown 4895 powder you can increase 1 grain.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    avogunner, I chronographed yesterday and got an average of right at 1900 FPS with my load.
    I shot at 50 yds and got a 1" group with 1 flyer that was my fault...dale

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dale2242 View Post
    avogunner, I chronographed yesterday and got an average of right at 1900 FPS with my load.
    I shot at 50 yds and got a 1" group with 1 flyer that was my fault...dale
    Thanks for going to the trouble Dale. I've never pushed that H&G past 1500fps and usually can keep 2 - 3 MOA with my 1903. I have some 4064 handy so I'm going to load up a few for the Garand and see if I can get your results.
    Thanks again,
    Semper Fi

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    I was loading IMR4895 in the M1.
    After I shot my 4895 supply down I started working on an 8 lb can of 4064.
    I am glad that the 4064 worked out as it is available now and 4895 is not
    BTW I was looking at some targets that I shot with the H&G #86. The groups were pretty poor....dale

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    i have not had much time with my M1 garand loads.
    Im running 200 grain gas checked , 2500+ lube with wheel weight alloy water quenched sized to .310 . Im not so sure if I need water quenching or not i just do it.
    H4895 I started at 35 grains and worked up until I got 100% function. 38 grains in my well worn M1 cast slinger. I was getting about 3-4moa with out much effort.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check