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Thread: Brass is Brass Right?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master ACC's Avatar
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    Brass is Brass Right?

    Brass is Brass Right?

    Sitting here for these weeks, I thought I would do a little quick and dirty test of different brands of brass. They are all .38 Special, and all the brass was brand new never fired. What I wanted to see is if one brand has longer life than the others. The brands I tested were: Winchester, R-P (Remington-Peters), Federal, Magtech, and Starline.

    All brass was twenty five cases; all shot with the same bullet, primer, and powder. All were shot in the same gun, my New Model Ruger Blackhawk which has the 4 3/8 inch barrel. The gun was cleaned between every brand of brass. The load used was the Lee 125 grain Round Nose Flat point which was powder coated and sized to .358. The gun powder was Hodgdon HP-38. 5.3 grains weighed out on my electronic scale. The average velocity was 1050 feet per second according to the chronograph at A Place to Shoot Range here in San Antonio. All shots where at the 30 meter pistol range there at A Place to Shoot. All trim to length was out of Lyman’s 4th edition Cast Bullet handbook.
    What I considered brass that could no longer be used was:

    1. Cases that developed a split in the case mouth.
    2. That had to be trimmed in very few firings.
    3. Primer pockets that became loose.
    4. Or all three of the above.

    The first set of twenty five cases that I reloaded was the Winchester. The Winchester gave a pretty good showing. I got eight reloads out of these cases until one case split about 1/8 inch at the mouth. The trim length was still very good not needing to be trimmed at all. The primer pockets were still tight and the rest of the cases were still usable.

    The next were the R-P. These went eight reloads. On the eighth firing three cases split half way to the rim. They also had to be trimmed twice as they had grown longer than the Lyman suggested length. Primer pockets were still pretty tight but not as much as the Winchester brass.

    The next was Federal. I was really disappointed in these cases. When I first started into reloading, Federal was the new kid on the block and the only other brass we had to chose from was Winchester, R-P, and for funny calibers, Norma. Federal used to be the go to brass, but this quick test said different. Five reloads was all I got. Four split necks and the primer pockets were pretty loose. What a disappointment.

    The worst of any of these cartridges was the Magtech. Two firings before 2 split necks, two more firings and three more split necks. My brother used to have a supplier of this unused brass but they can keep it. I tried to keep firing these to find out just how long they would last, but the primer pockets got too sloppy. I would stay away from this brass unless someone gives it to you.

    The last brand is to me was the new kid Starline. Starline has two types of .38 Special brass one head stamped +P and one just stamped .38 Special. According to Starline there is NO DIFFERENCE NO MATTER WHO TOLD YOU. I don’t care if your fairy god father tells you there is a difference there ain’t none. I have the ones stamped +P. As of today I have reloaded these twenty five cases eleven times. I have had to trim them once and the primer pockets seem to be almost as tight as when I first reloaded them. One case looks like at the next firing that it may split. I will have to keep an eye on it. I am impressed.

    Although every gun writer says that you can save money on reloading your spent cases, you can only do that if you get a minimum number of reloads out of the most expensive component in reloading. The brass case. That is why I did this little test. Understand, I am not trying to sell you anything. Use the brass that you like or have experience with. Or the brass you can get since we are in a shortage right now.

    If I have said bad things about your favorite brass, well, it is time to put your big boy pants on and try it yourself. What I have found is that most reloaders like to reload and don’t care about cost as even one reload is cheaper than factory ammo. My brother, God rest his soul, was like that. It was just fun. My Uncle Art, God rest his soul, wanted to save every penny possible so he could afford to shoot more.

    What is reloading to you?

    ACC

  2. #2
    Boolit Master ACC's Avatar
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    Oh, BTW I was taught how to reload with my Uncles .375 H&H mag brass. My uncle could nurse 8 or 9 reloads out of Winchester brass.

    ACC

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Both fun (relaxing) and somewhat economical. I feel good about shooten a cartridge that I put together.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Back in The late 1970's, I think Guns & Ammo Mag did a test with only one case. And a light .38Spl target load of Bullseye.
    Don't remember the brand of brass.
    But they claimed 160-166 ? Loads.

    I loaded Fed brass for my .44Mag target loads back in the 1980's. #429421 over 9.5grs of Unique. Sized in a steel sizer with minimum flare. Trimmed every 4th loading. 300 cases lasted over a year. 100rds a week.
    Guess Fed brass ain't what it used to be.
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  5. #5
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    Different experience here, I have all three brands plus a couple of boxes of GFL brass that have gone beyond 4 reloads with no issues,both in plain brass and in nickel. My champion brass is a box of Winchesters with 10 reloads on them. I have some RP at 6 and the rest all in between. Some has been trimmed but most are as shot from the factory.

  6. #6
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    All brass isn't brass. You have clean brass and dirty brass. There may be some minute differences between manufacturers. Starline brass is about .0005 thicker than others. I was surprised that you only got 8 reloads from the Winchester. I generally load mixed brass for target loads and only had one or two split necks after 20 plus reloads. Most of my used 38 brass actually came from another reloader who loaded them several times. Consequently I don't even trim any wheelgun brass (I used too).

    One more thing, "CBC (Magtech)" brass gave me problems with my 500 S&W. Had to use CCI primers (all others too loose) AND the darn things wouldn't chamber using 440 gn pills!
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for posting that ACC very interesting .

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    I don't pay for brass. It is free for me. Been loading since early 90's and only played for it once. 7.62x54r. So I don't care how many times I get out of it

  9. #9
    Boolit Man
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    How much You are expanding your case mouths may be a large contributor to the low number of reloads before splits.
    I seem to get far more loads with most brands of 38 cases before splits.
    Haven’t used any Magtech though in 38.

  10. #10
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    In my experience that seems to be a very low number of loads for 38 Spl brass. I've got nickel brass that the plating is almost worn off from loading it so many times and it's not splitting yet.
    NRA Benefactor.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Fingers View Post
    In my experience that seems to be a very low number of loads for 38 Spl brass. I've got nickel brass that the plating is almost worn off from loading it so many times and it's not splitting yet.
    I have a lot of 38 nickel brass that no longer has any nickel plating left but are still going strong after many reloadings.

  12. #12
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    I have some R-P 45/70 brass that I've been reloading since 1975.......reloaded 97 times and I haven't lost a case!

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master jmorris's Avatar
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    Brass is brass,what alloy and what process happens to it, makes a pretty big difference. As do what loads and firearm it is used with.

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    I've never researched it, but;
    How its flared and crimped may have a lot to do with extending its life.

    The expanders that put a wide funnel looking flare on a case compared to something like a Lee expander
    has got to shorten the times it can be used before it splits.

    Same with heavy crimps rolled in compared to light ones or a taper crimp.

    The mouth of the case being worked to one degree or another compared to the rest of the case body
    must be why they seem to always start their split at the mouth.
    Logically- the more you bend & yang around on the case mouth without anneling it- the less times it can be reloaded before it splits.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master ACC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDROB View Post
    Both fun (relaxing) and somewhat economical. I feel good about shooten a cartridge that I put together.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    I am with you. It is relaxing, although I would rather do it with my brother.

    ACC

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub
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    Ah...38 special brass. I have had 6 .38 sp brass split in 12 years of reloading. They were ALL nickel plated, bought in the 1980's and reloaded by a local gun shop, with full wadcutter loads before I ever got my hands on them. The guns and the brass belonged to my dad, who had to "qualify" 3x per year with his handguns, so these brass were reloaded that way at least 54 times, and I think they were reloads when he originally bought them. They all lasted at least 10x more reloads by me with 158 gr. semi-wadcutters. These brass have been shot out of a Charter Arms Undercover special, a S&W model 19 in .357, and a Marlin 1894c in .357. Out of those 200 nickel-plated brass, I still have 194 going strong, definitely over 100x reloaded.

    Maybe different brands of brass have different lifespans, but maybe the quality of manufacturing has decreased in the past 40 years as well?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master ACC's Avatar
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    Well they were all flared the same and crimped the same with a set of Lee dies. I have some PPU 7.62X39 brass that I have loaded pretty hot and I am on the 9th reloading. I believe your case life depends on the brass alloy that is used. But I was really surprised at the results for the Federal Brass. Back in the day my brother and I would reload .38 Special brass 15 or 20 times before we even thought about tossing it. And that was before we knew better than to load .38 Specials hot!

    ACC

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Win94ae's Avatar
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    I've had maybe one 38spl case split, and I shoot them a lot. :/

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Win94ae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithnframe View Post
    I have some R-P 45/70 brass that I've been reloading since 1975.......reloaded 97 times and I haven't lost a case!
    I was at a site that people said 7 shots was all they could get out of 45-70, I am on my 20th shot with some... I just started reloading for it 2 or so years ago. I do have hundreds of shots on some 30-30 and 30-06 cases. I was actually thrown out of that site for telling people that. Like I was a bad influence. :/

    I have AK cases that are over 50 shots. I just don't have a problem with case life.

    Well done!

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Over flaring kills brass quickly. Same for some of the chemicals some are using in wet polishing or in tumblers. I do have 45 Colt and 45/70 brass used in light loads that I know has over fifty loadings.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check