Titan ReloadingRepackboxRotoMetals2Wideners
Load DataReloading EverythingLee PrecisionInline Fabrication
MidSouth Shooters Supply
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 51

Thread: Why Better as cast

  1. #21
    Moderator Emeritus


    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    15,833
    Quote Originally Posted by sutherpride59 View Post
    SNIP...
    All I did was just run these upside down to swage on the gas check without touching the driving bands
    I guess I am not understanding how your can seat/crimp/swage a GC in a Star and NOT touch the driving bands?

    Does the boolit fall out of the die before the next one is inserted?
    OR
    Is the first boolit pushed out by the second boolit?

    I only ask, because I am wondering if the boolit could be getting bent while it is pushing the previous boolit out of the Die?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
    ― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    When I gas checked without sizing I pushed them in backwards just till the check got closed all the way, but keep in mind those are the ones that shot the best.
    90% professional 10% mature

  3. #23
    Banned



    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,068
    It's my general rule of thumb that the less sizing you can do, the better. Sizing a bullet is deforming it, plain and simple. Also, when you get right down to it, cast bullets, even hard ones, are still pretty elastic. The throat and chamber of your rifle will "size" it to what it wants. Bigger diameter to start with almost always works better in my experience.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    3,820
    Quote Originally Posted by ascast View Post
    I read an artical many tears ago in a Lyman or Ideal catalog. ... " sizing ruins bullets as there is no way to get them in a sizing die with the degree of precision that they MUST have to fall from a mold. You will invariable shave a bit off one side, ....
    That "shave a bit off one side" sounds like the info was written about Lyman's original sizing dies. The die bores weren't tapered at the mouth and sized with a square shoulder that sheared off any extra metal. I know Lyman had gone to a tapered entry by '65 so that shouldn't be the problem here.

    The idea of the unsized bullets forcing a bit more pressure to build up at ignition sounds good tho. I'd suggest you try a few rounds with your sized bullets but using a bit larger charge or a tad faster burning powder so the pressure builds enough to insure good ignition; that matters!

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Randy Bohannon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Buffalo WY
    Posts
    919
    A nice conversation with Paul Jones when I bought my first custom mould from him. I had asked him what die I should use for sizing his reply “ Why do you want to ruin my perfectly cast bullets from my beautifully machined mould ? Take accurate measurements , lube , load and shoot .

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    I appreciate all the replies guys. Like I said I have a .311 expander coming in as well as .312 sizing die to make it faster to lube then hand lubing. When I get my equipment I’ll make 10 test rounds of each and shoot two 5 round groups of each. I will try sized to .312 (the diameter they drop at) with the current neck expander and sized to .310 with the same expander. Then the same sized boolits but with the .311 neck expander and I will report back. Mostly to make sure that these boolits work best unsized and to see if the case was simply undersizing the boolits.
    90% professional 10% mature

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    barry s wales uk
    Posts
    2,655
    if they shoot well dont size them

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    180
    Before you spend a nickel - while 1 1/4 moa is good, I think you need to repeat that a few times. Accidental good groups are almost as common as accidental garbage.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,079
    More often then not it's a combination of things with the most common being the expander. The size of the ball throat sets the stage for the size of the expander.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    so help me out here, i received a .312' sizer and a NOE expander. I added them into my loading mix and i have seen positive results but what still eludes me is the velocity variance in my rounds. For example. my best groups today were about 1" at 50 yards and i am more than ok with that for a subsonic cast bullet load. However 5 rounds sized to .310 expanded casings with the NOE expander resulted in velocities of 1087,1095, 1148, 1075, 1074, 1038 FPS. They were all loaded with 11.5 grains of CFE BLK(verified individually by powder scale), all seated and crimped the same(crimp might have been a little heavy). The velocities are pretty consistent except the 1148 fps. I was sitting in the sun and the rounds were hot but they were all hot, i havent shot with this powder in the winter time but is CFE BLK just temperature sensitive or is there something else i should be looking at for these random velocity spikes? The same happened with another load of 9.2 grains of H110. Every 5 shot group yields great results except for one or two rounds that open the group to 2 or 3" groups. With the H110 groups i kept getting some random low velocity rounds that were 100-200 fps slower than the rest that opened the groups.

    THe boolits sit .42" inside the casing and with my sub-loads i get a touch more than half case fill with both powders. I haven't read of anyone else using filler in there sub-loads with these powders but I'm starting to think it might be necessary to make rounds accurate enough for hunting coyotes.

    Do yall have any other ideas of what i can do to make my velocities more consistent in this case?
    90% professional 10% mature

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    Thoughts, try using a Dacron filler, also try annealing the casing necks,
    90% professional 10% mature

  12. #32
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Atlanta, NY 14808
    Posts
    2,163
    Quote Originally Posted by sutherpride59 View Post
    I guess that could be true, maybe I should just be happy that I found what seems to work and quit over analyzing it lol.
    My thoughts exactly. Serendipity is a good thing. Success with less effort, what's not to like?
    Micah 6:8
    He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    "I don't have hobbies - I'm developing a robust post-apocalyptic skill set"
    I may be discharged and retired but I'm sure I did not renounce the oath that I solemnly swore!

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by William Yanda View Post
    My thoughts exactly. Serendipity is a good thing. Success with less effort, what's not to like?
    Well less sizing seemed to help for sure but still fliers due to random excessive velocity drops and gains. After some thought I decided to try a few things. For one I was using mixed brass, so I will only work with my converted lake city brass for now as I have plethora of this brass available for free. I believe one of the commercial brass casings of a different trim length may have been the real issue but who knows, it’s a factor to rule out none the less. I sorted some bullets and will only use the best most consistent weighing ones. I will also load a 5 round group of rounds with a Dacron filler and test that aspect as well. All I want is the groups I have now but consistent. I can live with 2-3” groups but I don’t like the idea of that random bullet moving only at 800fps when the rest are about 1080. I will also keep all test rounds out of the sun till the moment of loading. Just to rule out one other factor. I’m getting so close I can taste it!
    90% professional 10% mature

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    4,535
    Are you sure the fliers are due to the change in velocity or are you just assuming that because you have one flier and one velocity that is off? I used to assume that until I plotted every bullet on a target along with it's muzzle velocity. Sometimes results were surprising.

    Weight sorting bullets is an essential part of accurate cast bullets. Mainly it determines if there are any voids in the cast. Consistent weights also contribute to more consistent velocities. I also use match primers for many of my loads to get more consistent velocities.

    As someone mentioned, I would also make a harder alloy, especially if this is an auto loader. Just the movement of a cartridge from magazine to chamber will 'knock' on the bullet a bit (even in a bolt gun). When too soft it will deform the bullet. If you are loading from a magazine try single loading by hand and see if there is a difference.

    FWIW, when shooting my muzzle loader I want a soft bullet (~8bhn) so that the bullet base is 'upset' into the rifling. You may also be experiencing this kind of 'slump' when firing.

    One other idea is to try some good jacketed bullets (match quality) and see how they do with the same loads.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy MaxJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    407
    Quote Originally Posted by Dapaki View Post
    .6" at 50 yards? Less work? I would take that without questioning the 'why', personally. Congrats on your happy accident.
    I was thinking the same...haha
    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET IS WITH A CENTREFIRE!!!

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy MaxJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    407
    I suspect the upside down being one problem. I think you would have been better off going with a std lee push thru, nose first to seat GC. At least the bullet would have a flat base to locate from.
    THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN HIT THE CENTRE OF THE TARGET IS WITH A CENTREFIRE!!!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    Single loading is a good idea that for whatever reason eluded me.
    90% professional 10% mature

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525


    My 50 yard groups for a better idea of what I’m trying to explain. With the bottom two grouping being the most sever the bottom right group I got lost in the moment and forgot to record the velocities but the rest are there, the flier in every group was the round of increased velocity or decreased velocity from the Norm as I was watching the impacts with a pair of binos. So yes the off velocities are what are opening my groups. I understand a velocity may be different but result in a minuscule deviation from accuracy but with such extremes, including a 205 grain boolit, 835 fps vs 1035fps is a pretty big difference and you will notice boolit drop.

    NOE means I used the NOE expander instead of the lee one.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by sutherpride59; 05-20-2020 at 07:19 PM.
    90% professional 10% mature

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aberdeen, South Dakota
    Posts
    7,136
    I know CFE BLK is advertised as being for subsonic rounds, but it doesn't seem like many on this site use it. Could you try a more traditional target powder like red dot, 700x, unique, etc.?

  20. #40
    Boolit Master

    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    525
    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I know CFE BLK is advertised as being for subsonic rounds, but it doesn't seem like many on this site use it. Could you try a more traditional target powder like red dot, 700x, unique, etc.?
    I’ve stopped using CFE as I was getting better accuracy with H110 and plenty of gas, it’s what most use for supers but in some over gassed guns like mine it works for subs just as well. I could play around with other powders but this is being used in an AR and I want it to cycle the gun.
    90% professional 10% mature

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check