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Thread: How many shots did they carry with them in the 1700's for a hunting trip?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by salpal48 View Post
    Powder Horns and People loading with them was a Figment of Hollywoods imagination. Old drawing and painting of people waring them i believe were also faked . they were never used only for show. all cartridges were made as Paper Cartridges and carries In pouches Or cartridge Boxes similar to military style. most hunter were fast to load and fast to shoot. Most if not all Horns and Flasks were only used to Prime with priming Powder with Flint . Since priming Powder was like dust, it did not handle well. Horns and Flasks went Out with the introduction of percussion cap
    Just Hollywood
    Whole lot of misinformation there. I've examined too many original bags and horns to swallow it.
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  2. #22
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    Agreed. Capt. Robert Rogers of Roger's Rangers required that his men carry a pound of powder and 60 balls with them. I examined mountain man Mariano Modena's rifle and bag in the Denver museum over 30 years ago, and his buffalo horn powder horn held just over a pound of powder for his 58 caliber Hawken.

  3. #23
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    Best way to judge. A picture. Look for a bread board patched ball toter/ hung from the neck or a ball bag in hand. Back in the day I was so informed most long guns were musket or shotguns. Shot guns seldom missed. Muskets on the other hand required back up shots more often that not and usually toted by those whom thought it best to carry verses a shot gun. Today's flint locks are much more reliable. Although I don't hunt with a flinter. My choice is a percussion lock rifle and carry 4 ball total in a small bullet bag and a Day horn for powder reserve. ( 8 to 10 oz capacity) I never found the need to tote a large heavy horn afield. After all I'm not hunting dangerous quarry or hunting my way to Albuquerque via Duluth. "I'm just on the scout for a thin skin spike'er seen close to home."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by salpal48 View Post
    Powder Horns and People loading with them was a Figment of Hollywoods imagination. Old drawing and painting of people waring them i believe were also faked . they were never used only for show. all cartridges were made as Paper Cartridges and carries In pouches Or cartridge Boxes similar to military style. most hunter were fast to load and fast to shoot. Most if not all Horns and Flasks were only used to Prime with priming Powder with Flint . Since priming Powder was like dust, it did not handle well. Horns and Flasks went Out with the introduction of percussion cap
    Just Hollywood
    Musket Cartridges were universally used on both sides during the civil war with Minnie Balls. During the Revolutionary War the Brits would have been using a lot of them for the smoothbore muskets. Due to funding and supply issues not some much in the US. http://www.revolutionarywarjournal.c...artridge-used/

    Period journals and writings indicate loose powder and patched round ball was the norm for eastern hunters through the mountain men. Same for the historical artifacts.

    Period journals and writings indicate paper musket cartridges were the norm for the organized militia. Same for the historical artifacts.

    The best funded and equipped expedition would have the Lewis and Clark Expedition from May 1804 to September 1806. It was also known as the Corps of Discovery Expedition. Here is the packing list of supplies. It appear they took both powder horns and Cartouch Box Belts. That would fit since they took both rifles and muskets.

    http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/inside/idx_equ.html

    http://www.lewis-clark.org/article/2977

    http://westernexplorers.us/Lewis-and...s-summary.html

    Powder horns, powder measures, patching, and lead balls were required accessories. Lewis devised lead powder canisters, each holding 4 pounds gun powder and made with 8 pounds of sheet lead which was used to cast into bullets. The expedition began with 51 of the powder canisters (mostly with rifle grade powder; others musket grade) and some wooden kegs of powder, size not known. The captains' notes of powder usage in their journals indicates that the rifles were fired a lot more than the muskets. Certainly the rifles would have been preferred for hunting.

    https://www.monticello.org/thomas-je...-packing-list/
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 05-06-2020 at 03:37 AM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by salpal48 View Post
    Powder Horns and People loading with them was a Figment of Hollywoods imagination. Old drawing and painting of people waring them i believe were also faked . they were never used only for show. all cartridges were made as Paper Cartridges and carries In pouches Or cartridge Boxes similar to military style. most hunter were fast to load and fast to shoot. Most if not all Horns and Flasks were only used to Prime with priming Powder with Flint . Since priming Powder was like dust, it did not handle well. Horns and Flasks went Out with the introduction of percussion cap
    Just Hollywood
    This has to be a fake post.
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  6. #26
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    A great read on this subject is "44 years in the life of a hunter", by Messich Browning. Written in the 18th century, the language takes a little getting used to as he describes his life and his adventures as a meat hunter in western Maryland. Deer, bear, & mountain lions were his primary game. If you want to read contemporary writings of the period with all the unvarnished description of life in a harsh environment, this is the book for you. I do believe it is still in print as I see it in Western Maryland curio shops. By the way, he would "pound" a recovered ball back into round for reuse. This is one of those books that after you get it, it will stay in your library.

  7. #27
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    you will read that an ENGLISH GENTLEMAN would carry a small powder horn for priming and loading his weapon, called a day horn and a leather device called a SHOT SNAKE , that dispersed the right amount of said shot, and perhaps a spare flint. that is what you will read in ENGLISH TEXT ON HUNTING.

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    There were all kinds of crafty ways people did things back then. I never knew about the lead canisters for powder. That seems strange to me. I've spent lots of time on the water, I owned a boat years before I bought my first car. The golden rule is anything on board can, and often will get wet. In the case of a canoe, that often means ending up in the water. Maybe the lead canisters could be made 100% waterproof? It seems that they should have been able to make a wood keg reasonably waterproof, that would also float. That way you would at least have powder, you wouldn't loose both powder and balls.

  9. #29
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    But with powder in a lead container, they used the lead to make ball or bullet after the powder was removed. Something they needed anyway.
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  10. #30
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    Check Nicholas Cresswell's journal I think he mentioned this. Otherwise who knows? I just put in what I think I will need for the trip, for a week usually a 1/2 pound of balls depending on calibre. In camp for a two week deer camp I keep a mould and a small lead pot and cast more if I need them. For a day hunt with the trade gun just 5 balls and a 1/2 pound of shot.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooman76 View Post
    But with powder in a lead container, they used the lead to make ball or bullet after the powder was removed. Something they needed anyway.
    And the first time you dump the canoe, you lost both your powder and balls. Being as smart as they were, I'm guessing those lead canisters were strapped down good. Myself, I would have taken something that floated. You can reuse balls. Powder is a one time use.

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    http://www.lewis-clark.org/article/1495

    Lead Powder Kegs
    Lead Cannister

    1

    In Philadelphia in May of 1803, Lewis ordered 52 lead canisters specially made to carry and protect the expedition's gunpowder. None of the original canisters is known to exist. The replica pictured here was created for the Travelers' Rest chapter of the Lewis and Clark Trail Heritage Foundation. The cork plug is sealed with wax.

    At Fort Clatsop on February 1, 1806, Lewis wrote:

    Today we opened and examined all our ammunition, which had been secured in leaden cannesters. We found twenty seven of the best rifle powder, 4 of common rifle, three of glaized and one of the musqut powder in good order, perfectly as dry as when first put in the canesters, although the whole of it from various accedents has been for hours under the water. These cannesters contain four lbs of powder each and . . . 8 of lead. Had it not have been for that happy expedient which I devised of securing the powder by means of the lead, we should not have had a single charge of powder at this time. Three of the canesters which had been accedentally bruized and cracked, one which was carelessly stoped, and a fifth that had been penetrated with a nail, were a little dammaged; these we gave to the men to make . . . dry; however exclusive of those five we have an abundant stock to last us back; and we always take care to put a proportion of it in each canoe, to the end that should one canoe or more be lost we should still not be entirely bereft of ammunition, which is now our only hope for subsistence and defence in a rout of 4000 miles through a country exclusively inhabited by savages.

    As it turned out, they had more than enough to get them home. Lewis could even afford to give a couple of pounds of powder and some lead to two trappers he met coming up the Missouri River six months later, on August 12.

    In addition to powder and lead, Lewis bought a supply of "fixed ammunition"—prefabricated paper cartridges each containing a lead ball and enough powder to fire it. These were intended for use in the smooth-bore muskets, but they were hard to keep dry; the paper often soaked up moisture and dampened the powder inside
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  13. #33
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    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by salpal48 View Post
    Powder Horns and People loading with them was a Figment of Hollywoods imagination. Old drawing and painting of people waring them i believe were also faked . they were never used only for show. all cartridges were made as Paper Cartridges and carries In pouches Or cartridge Boxes similar to military style. most hunter were fast to load and fast to shoot. Most if not all Horns and Flasks were only used to Prime with priming Powder with Flint . Since priming Powder was like dust, it did not handle well. Horns and Flasks went Out with the introduction of percussion cap
    Just Hollywood
    I reckon my great-great grandfather did not get the memo on that. He was born in East Tennessee in 1816, and I still have his old cow horn powder horn.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by JoeJames; 05-06-2020 at 05:36 PM.
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Survival Bill View Post
    I was just wondering how many shots did they take with them in the 1700's?...I just want a guestimate for my personal curiosity is all...
    I haven't a guess but I'm certain there was no more a standard answer then than now.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    http://www.lewis-clark.org/article/1495

    Lead Powder Kegs
    Lead Cannister

    1

    In Philadelphia in May of 1803, Lewis ordered 52 lead canisters specially made to carry and protect the expedition's gunpowder. None of the original canisters is known to exist. The replica pictured here was created for the Travelers' Rest chapter of the Lewis and Clark Trail Heritage Foundation. The cork plug is sealed with wax.

    At Fort Clatsop on February 1, 1806, Lewis wrote:

    Today we opened and examined all our ammunition, which had been secured in leaden cannesters. We found twenty seven of the best rifle powder, 4 of common rifle, three of glaized and one of the musqut powder in good order, perfectly as dry as when first put in the canesters, although the whole of it from various accedents has been for hours under the water. These cannesters contain four lbs of powder each and . . . 8 of lead. Had it not have been for that happy expedient which I devised of securing the powder by means of the lead, we should not have had a single charge of powder at this time. Three of the canesters which had been accedentally bruized and cracked, one which was carelessly stoped, and a fifth that had been penetrated with a nail, were a little dammaged; these we gave to the men to make . . . dry; however exclusive of those five we have an abundant stock to last us back; and we always take care to put a proportion of it in each canoe, to the end that should one canoe or more be lost we should still not be entirely bereft of ammunition, which is now our only hope for subsistence and defence in a rout of 4000 miles through a country exclusively inhabited by savages.

    As it turned out, they had more than enough to get them home. Lewis could even afford to give a couple of pounds of powder and some lead to two trappers he met coming up the Missouri River six months later, on August 12.

    In addition to powder and lead, Lewis bought a supply of "fixed ammunition"—prefabricated paper cartridges each containing a lead ball and enough powder to fire it. These were intended for use in the smooth-bore muskets, but they were hard to keep dry; the paper often soaked up moisture and dampened the powder inside
    That's pretty much exactly how that played out in my head. But hey, they obviously sealed well. And as we know, they retuned to tell about it, so it can't be the worst way in the world to transport powder.

  17. #37
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    I had a horn my great grandpa had. It looked just like the one that Joe James just posted. I think that post was posted by someone trying to be sarcastic.

    As for lead not being found, our scout troup used to have our "Jamborees" in a little town just a little ways north of us named Galena, Illinois. You could buy pure lead crystals in the souvenir shops there. The town was founded around 1690 by the French.

    Wonder where they came up with the name Galena..?..hmm...

  18. #38
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    For many years I hunted squirrels with a .25 caliber flintlock. A small handful of balls dumped in my hunting bag and a small powder horn of 3F would last all season. I had a really good dog, so we would get quite a few.
    The balls were #4 buckshot weighing 19 grains, and 16 1/2 grains of powder would send one right through a squirrel's body at 40 yards. Wish I could still see to shoot like that!

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by curdog007 View Post
    For many years I hunted squirrels with a .25 caliber flintlock. A small handful of balls dumped in my hunting bag and a small powder horn of 3F would last all season. I had a really good dog, so we would get quite a few.
    The balls were #4 buckshot weighing 19 grains, and 16 1/2 grains of powder would send one right through a squirrel's body at 40 yards. Wish I could still see to shoot like that!
    Now that is cool! And from what I've read back East the usual squirrel rifles were not really much larger than that - maybe around 32 caliber. Even early Plains rifles were not much larger. I've seen one Plains rifle - walnut stock, iron furniture and it was about 42 caliber.
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  20. #40
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    I would imagine that like todays hunters, they take what they feel would be right for the situation. If they felt that 20 would be more than enough, then that's what they take. If they only took ten and run out, the next time would take more. The military was quite frugal and would often limit their men so they wouldn't waist what they had.

    I have an old original piece, 32 cal estimated from the mid 1800. Just a plain Jane gun sometimes called a hardware store gun. It seen many changes over the years but still in good shape for it's age. It also weighs a ton. 39" barrel 1 1/8 flats but first time I shot it, it clover leafed at 50 yards.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check