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Thread: beginners question on barrels

  1. #1
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    beginners question on barrels

    Hello friends,

    I am looking to start a new adventure in casting and loading. I am almost ashamed to admit this but with all of the reloading and casting I have done I have never loaded any shotgun shells. I have never owned or even handled a shotshell loader until a few days ago.

    A guy locally was selling a bunch of reloading stuff and I bought the whole load. Included was a brand new Lee Load-All. Not the "2" but the original. So I got the idea that I would like to start using it.

    I have an 870 that I used to bird hunt with. I want to buy a replacement barrel to shoot slugs and round ball loads. I have spent hours reading online and watching Youtube videos and I am more confused than ever.

    I would like a short barrel with rifle sights but do I get a smoothbore or one with rifling? I plan on keeping the loads simple. Maybe cut the tops off of some cheap field loads and replace the shot with a round ball.

    50 yards max is all I want. Just looking for a change of pace.

    If the experts can point me towards the barrel that I should look for that would be great.

    Thanks in advance for your time,


    Steve in N CA

  2. #2
    In Remembrance bikerbeans's Avatar
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    The twist rate on a rifled slug barrel is too fast for round balls.

    BB

  3. #3
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    While a rifled barrel for a shotgun can work with some slugs, I've never really understood the desire to turn a shotgun into a rifle.
    If you want a rifle, get a rifle. I you want a shotgun get a shotgun.

    Now before everyone gets out the tar and feathers, I understand the concept of having one gun that can fulfill two roles. However, trying to turn a shotgun into a rifle has some limits. I think a shotgun is an extremely useful tool because it is a smooth bore.
    Just my $0.02 worth.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Your factory barrel for the 870 is likely sufficient for shooting any slug you like outto 50 yards with the right choke tube. A short smoothbore barrel with sights is good for "tactical" applications, but may not be cut for chokes, so there isn't the option to "tune" it to your loads. Rifled barrels are unnecessary for your stated purpose, but if you hunt a shotgun-only state or get really neurotic about accuracy like some of us here on the site, you might talk yourself into getting one.

  5. #5
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    missionary5155's Avatar
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    Good morning
    Your simple idea of opening up a shotshell (no cutting needed), dumping the shot and inserting a round ball will work. Get a mold that drops about .685 - 690 and have fun. Those were my first RB loads 30 years ago with Winchester field loads. Accuracy out to 30-35 yards was easily within "minute of corn crunchers". Mine were done not for "bean eaters" but for dispatching large Crocadilians.

    A rifled barrel will shoot RB but you will need a groove sized ball or be willing to invest a good amount of time and powder experimenting with wads buffers and other issues. This is no different than reloading cast slugs in rifles. You an get out to 100 yards with the right combination for your barrel.

    Disregard the "ney sayers". There are those who would tell you this or that is impossible. The U.S. Admiral who changed naval propulsion once said " Our doubts are traitors and make us loose the good we oft might win by failing to attempt".
    Mike in LLama Land
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    get a cylinder bore barrel and shoot Remington Sluggers. You can expect about 6-8 inch groups at 100 yds. Brennekes also shoot that well or better, at much higher cost. I have not retested others brands in 40 years as they were so abysmal throwing rocks would be better. Maybe you should try 5 or 10 sluggers on your current tube, as close to cylinder bore as you can get. good luck

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Well lets not get his hopes up to unrealistic expectations. There is no way a bone stock shotgun with any off the shelf rifled slugs are going to be regularly putting them into 6-8" groups at 100 yards. If you do, buy a lottery ticket.

    With your current bead sight barrel, and the right slugs, you can expect about 4"-5" accuracy at 50 yards. Add sights, and you can expect 3" groups or so. A rifled barrel can cut that in half, to about 1 1/2". It doesn't matter if it is a rifled slug, round ball, or other, I've never seen a rifled barrel make them shoot worse.

    There are three good options. You can add sights to your current barrel, assuming it has a vent rib. The Williams clamp on sights work fantastically well. The sights are removable, but I wouldn't call them easily removable. The next is to buy a smooth bore slug barrel which has good rifle sights. Remington normally used an IC choke, which works fantastically well with slugs or buckshot. Or you can buy a rifled barrel, they can be had in either rifle sights or cantilever scope mount. The rifled barrel will be most accurate with slugs, but while safe, you loose all capability with buckshot.

    With a .735" round ball, you can expect around 4" groups at 50 yards with a smooth bore. In a rifled barrel you can expect 1 1/2" to 2".

  8. #8
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    OK, this is easily doable. Keep you eye out for an 18"-20" Cylinder Bore Barrel (No Choke Tubes )with Rifle Sights on Ebay. If you want a 24" barrel with sights they are on there right now.

    You don't want a Rifled Barrel for your application.

    You need the sights if you are shooting Balls or Slugs.

    You should expect 2-3" groups at 50 yards from this combo using Common Federal Low Recoil Slugs. YMMV as it does with everything here.

    You should also get one of the Remington Gel Cell Recoil Pads for your gun as they soak up Recoil really well.

    With Buckshot your gun will pattern Federal Low Recoil 00 Buckshot into 15" at 15 yards.

    If you go to www.vangcomp.com you will read about the Vang Comp Process of Barrel Modification. Their mods to the barrel will shoot 00 Buck into 7" at 25 yards which makes Buckshot viable to 50 yards hence the need for Rifle Sights. Obviously #8 birdshot will shoot much tighter as well.

    I just got my 18.5" M500 barrel back from them , and it looks beautiful. shooting tomorrow!

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  9. #9
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    There's a LOT of shotgun barrels for sale on Ebay. You will easily find a barrel with rifle sights rifled or smooth bore. No end to the after market parts and pieces for an 870. Gp

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    Don't need a new barrel if you have a fixed IC or screw-in chokes and a 50 yd expectation. You can load .678 round balls in a shotcup and shoot 'em in 2-3" either way from center point. The way to look at it is if you are shooting a quarter at 50 yds and every shot is no more than 2" from the center that is a 2" group in the hog woods. I know that means 4" on paper but dead hogs don't lie. I've got a stable of 870s and for an all-around hunting gun you won't find better.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  11. #11
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    About 25 years ago a friend and I were playing with shotguns and slugs in field. At roughly 100 yards (we paced it off so it was somewhere between 90-110 yards ?) we were taking turns shooting slugs at a reduced B-27 target.
    We both had Remington 870 shotguns and were using some type of factory Foster slug. (probably Federal). I had bead sights and he had rifle sights.
    From a rest, he could put all of his shots in the scoring (black) area of the target. I could put mine on the paper. When we switched guns I could duplicate his results with the rifled sights. We both struggled with windage and with the bead sights, I struggled with elevation. My takeaway from that exercise was that 100 yards was about the limit of the useful range of that gear.

    At some point you just have to switch to a rifle.

  12. #12
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    P&P: With the 12 ga shotgun the average slug is 1 oz. 437 grains. There is a large variety of slugs available both for casting and commercial that can be loaded or bought. Brenneke Ammo has some real butt kickers. With 1.5 oz slugs at 1600 fps! These will take down anything on this planet.

    Many places you can't hunt with a Rifle, and only Shotguns are allowed mainly due to their Limited Range.

    My non Toxic Shotgun Slugs are very accurate and are also 550 gr.

    The versatility of the shotgun is unmatched, but when you start talking 450 gr+ boolits you are into the big gun regime. .45-70 and above, and none of those guns will shoot buckshot or birdshot very well.

    As long as you are under 100 yards, the shotgun is the most versatile weapon out there, and since it is so powerful with the right ammunition, it can be conveniently used as a backup gun for Polar Bear Sight Seeing Trips, or shooting Doves with inexpensive Walmart ammo.

    The most fun classes at Front Sight are the Shotgun Classes. The thrill of blasting away at steel targets and learning how to run the gun in a very efficient manner for several days is more than enough to convince anyone that the shotgun should be a primary weapon for any defensive purpose.

    The reason for the Rifle Sights is that essentially you are fielding a .73 caliber rifle which is nothing more than an Evolution of the Brown Bess Musket that served the British Empire from 1720 to 1830. The idea of a 3/4" ball of lead coming at you at warp speed was certainly enough to convince any one or thing to turn and run.

    Anyone facing a Combat Shotgun should really consider doing the same.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  13. #13
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    I agree with all of that, in particular that fact that a shotgun with a slug is basically a musket. There's a reason we use rifles for any serious long range work.

    I'm also familiar with some of the more advanced designs for slugs, including the Hour Glass shaped, sabot types such as the old BRI slugs. They have their place. And yes, there are places where a shotgun is the only option.
    In the end, with a smooth bore - A shotgun is a musket. If you want to add a rifled barrel, why not just go get a rifle ?


    You'll get NO argument from me about the effectiveness and versatility of a shotgun. It is an excellent tool at closer ranges.
    Perhaps I didn't convey my message well; I'm not criticizing the shotgun - I have no doubt about the effectiveness of a shotgun at close ranges. However, as much as I appreciate the versatility of a shotgun, I also recognize the limitations of that platform.

    I think sometimes when we try to squeeze just a little more performance out of some platform, we reach diminishing returns on our efforts.

  14. #14
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    Guys, thank you very much!

    I knew that I would get the straight dope here. I know what to look for now.

    Thanks again,


    Steve in N CA

  15. #15
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    P&P you asked "If you want to add a rifled barrel, why not just go get a rifle ?"

    They don't make .73 Caliber Rifles. Actually they do but they're not cheap,,, https://www.tarhunt.com/

    But the Rifled barrel effectively makes a Legal .73 caliber Rifle.

    Here's a 5 shot group with my NT Slugs at 50 yards with open sights from my Browning A5. It shoots like a Rifle?

    Come on now,,, You need one?

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  16. #16
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    Randy, I think you and I are on the same wavelength but aren't communicating.

    When you put a rifled barrel on a shotgun, with rifle type sights, and load it with a highly engineered slug in a sabot; you've turned that shotgun into......well.....a RIFLE

    I get it Randy, I really do. At some point I look at all of those gyrations and ask myself, at what point does it make more sense to just get a rifle?

    I think a shotgun is a fantastic tool and I agree with everything you said in post #12. I like shotguns. I think they are very useful tools. But somewhere between about 50 and 100 yards out, I start to ask myself, "why don't I just get a rifle"?

  17. #17
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    Randy, I think you and I are on the same wavelength but aren't communicating.

    Yes we are,,, but I have nothin else to do and I'm bored, so pulling your chain is something to do.


    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Randy, I think you and I are on the same wavelength but aren't communicating.

    Yes we are,,, but I have nothin else to do and I'm bored, so pulling your chain is something to do.


    Randy
    LOL! We love you, Randy!

    Back on topic, I used an 870 Express Turkey model for years, nice handy 21" vent rib barrel with two beads. Put the middle bead behind the front and let 'er rip! Kind of a poor man's express sight! At 50 yds. with an IC tube in place it would group 4-5" with Foster slugs, about 2" left of center. The deer didn't seem to mind. Still have it and use it regularly. If the OP's gun has a vent rib it's a simple and inexpensive thing to D & T and install a center bead!
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

    unknown

  19. #19
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    It's been a progression for me. I started with my go fast rifles the 22-250 and 25-06 and toying with different jacketed bullets. It got boring so I started shooting cast bullets in most everything, handgun and rifle. I started reading these shotgun threads and saw all the fun being had by Hal, Tom, Kent, Leon, Randy and others and decided I just didn't have enough frustration in my life so I was going to make a shotgun shoot like a rifle or just spend a LOT of money trying. Some days things work better than others. LOL Gp

  20. #20
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    I loaded 25 Thug Slugs , 25 AQ slugs and 25 STI slugs this evening. All got 23 gr of Unique. Going to shoot them tomorrow along with some Federal Low Recoil slugs for control groups , thru several different guns and see how they do. Also refining Zeros on those guns.

    First time I've got to shoot in months. Probably take some rifles and pistols too.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check