Webley Mark VI and Lyman 454613 mold

[oldcorps76]

Has anyone "out there" ever loaded the .455 Webley Mark VI with an as-cast Lyman 454613 boolit? I just got an uncut Mark VI, a want to reload for it but the old RCBS .455 molds are unobtanium. I bought the Lyman mold off ebay, having read somwhere, someone had success with a Mark VI, but in retrospect think the shank may be too long for that short Webley case. Any thoughts or experience out there?

[Outpost75]

Absolutely shank of #454613 is too long for the .455 MkII using Starline, Hornady or Fiocchi .455 cases which are only 0.76" long.

Accurate 45-264D was designed to fit correctly in the shorter .455 MkII brass, having reduced seating depth and a full-diameter front band north of the crimp groove which reduces "jump" when the shorter MkII cases are used in revolvers having the longer MkI or .455 Eley chambers. While the drawing diameter states .454" given the normal tolerance of up to +0.002" on diameters, bullets will normally drop .455-.456 and be correct to load as-cast without sizing, when run of 50-50 wheelweights and plumber's lead with a pinch of tin added to improve fill-out. I lubricate my bullets with a light film of Lee Liquid Alox diluted with equal parts of aliphatic mineral spirits, just enough to turn the bullets a uniform "brassy" color. There is no need to "fill" the lube grooves or to have multiple tiny "tumble-lube" grooves.

Correct, safe powder charges which approximate service velocity (600 +/- 30 fps) in Webley MkVI revolvers having typically "loose" wartime cylinder gaps of 0.008-0.012" are 3.5 grains of Bullseye, Red Dot, 700-X, WST or 452AA or 4 grains of Unique. These charges may be increased 1/2 grain if used in the solid-frame S&W .455 Hand Ejector or Colt New Service, or in the MkVI ONLY when using longer (0.87") MkI Dominion or CIL cases, or Starline Schofield cases cut to that length having the rims turned.

My 1914 Colt New Service has a tighter 0.006" cylinder gap and gives a full 50 fps higher velocity than my MkVI Webley of the same year manufacture.

Attachment 261176 Attachment 261177

[Drm50]

I used a Lyman bullet as cast, I’ll have to check number. Didn’t shoot good enough for me. I modified a Lyman Ideal 322gr Gould express HP mold and sized .457”. This was for Colt NS 455 Eley.

[Outpost75]

RCBS 45-300FN bullet for the .45-70 also works IF you mill the blocks to remove the GC heel and shorten the bullet to reduce seating depth and bring weight down to about 270 grains. In soft lead bullet will then drop about .455-.456 diameter and can be tumble-lubed without sizing and used with the 3.5 grain charge of Bullseye noted above.

[rintinglen]

If you can find one, the old Lyman 454-309 works pretty well. I shot them as cast in CIL cases from an old S&W, loaded to crimp in the upper or forward lube groove. I pan-lubed them with Javelina Brand Alox and used a fired 45-70 casing with a nail ground flat to pop them out of the lube cake. IIRC, I used 3.8 grains of Red Dot.

My current MK VI is a post-war (WW I) commercial gun that has been cut for 45 AR.

[Good Cheer]

Would the Lee 456-220-1R work?

[rintinglen]

If cast soft enough, it should work fine. The Brits had some funny ideas as to the proper relationship between cylinder throat and groove diameter. Oftentimes, the throat is smaller than the groove diameter. If this is the case in your pistol, DougGuy is your friend.

[Outpost75]

If cast soft enough, it should work fine. The Brits had some funny ideas as to the proper relationship between cylinder throat and groove diameter. Oftentimes, the throat is smaller than the groove diameter. If this is the case in your pistol, DougGuy is your friend.

In BOTH of my Webley Top-Breaks, a Boer War period MkIV and a 1914 MkVI the cylinder throats were all tighter than barrel groove diameter, which measured .454-.455 using a V-anvil micrometer due to the odd number of grooves. Cylinder throats also varied hugely from .448" to .452" within the same cylinder. On the MKIV my local gnsmith used a .4550" High-Speed Steel Round-Shank Chucking Reamer With Straight Flutes Straight Flute McMaster-Carr #8803A885 $32.58
Or you could use the 0.4555" #8803A886 $32.58

My MKVI had throats which were deeply pitted so I sent the cylinder to DougGuy for honing, which did a much better job. He uniformed the throats to .4555" to 800 grit polish and removed almost all of the old deep pitting.

Attachment 261332Attachment 261333Attachment 261334

[PB234]

I'd just go to Buffalo Arms and buy the cupped base lead bullets they sell for 45 LC also suggested for use in the Webley. Considering how few rounds you will probably send through the Webley respecting its age and clumsiness (compared to a new pistol) it will be cheaper and easier to buy some from Buffalo Arms. The work nicely.

Also I have seen .455 Webley hollow base offered commercially. There is also a group buy for a .455 hollow base going on now. It is tempting, but the cup base lead 45s (Remington) from Buffalo Arms is the easiest and probably cheapest. Miha may also have some of the Webley molds he ran a few years ago still for sale. Look at his web site.

[Good Cheer]

Just as an example, I have a 450229 that had the round-flat nose cut out to straight cylinderical, producing a hollow base wadcutter.
Modifications like that of fairly inexpensive molds is a fun option to look at.

[Good Cheer]

Passing thought, I have a Lyman #457195 flat base.
Is that a suitable boolit for the Mk.VI?
Suppose it might serve if sized down a little bit.
I've been planning on shooting it as a picket bullet of sorts.

[rintinglen]

As originally produced, the 457-195 (and 457-196) molds were single cavity hollow base molds specifically designed for the Webley Service Revolvers. I tried for several years to land one off E-bay, but on the rare occasion when one appeared it went for money far beyond what I was prepared to spend. That mold should perform admirably in the .455, cast of a suitably soft alloy.

I am surprised to hear of a plain base version, I did not know that they had ever made such a thing. One of the neat things about this hobby is that there is always something new to be learned or rediscovered. Could you post a picture of your unusual mold?

[Good Cheer]

Here's the #457195.



The Model 1909 has large chambers and might benefit from this mold.
It could let the black be maximized as well.

[rintinglen]

Thank you for the photo. I have not seen one like that before.

[Good Cheer]

You're welcome sir.
If it wasn't an unusual mold I'd probably get it a huge hollow point.

Hey, for your Webley, have you tried a #45468?
It's lighter weight but has a hollow base.

[.455 Webley]

I have the RCBS mold. Let me know if you want me to ship you a supply of slugs from it. Next time I warm her up i will make extra.

[oldcorps76]

Hey all - your answers went directly to my spam folder and I did not see them until today, so sorry for the late "thank you's."
Actually, I found the mold maker Miha from Slovenia (my immigrant grandparents home nation) and ordered one of his RNHB molds. I ordered a .455 but got a .457....I am going to be loading for both a Webley Mark VI and an unaltered Colt .455 New Service I picked up at a reasonable cost from GB. I bought a .455 Saeco sizing die and when the weather out here in CO evens up I am going to cast some up (I do all my casting outside). I have not slugged either gun but I am thinking I'll size them to .455 with SPG, which seems to work with all my assorted .44 and .45 revolvers, and go for a test drive over 4.3 gr Unique. The Lyman 45413 I am going to use for my Miroku Winchester 1873 in .45 Colt......