COVID-19 And what I know

[Battis]

we Americans are too dumb and afraid to think critically for ourselves.

I don't agree with that. Some, maybe. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but there's a lot going on here that we don't know about.

[dangitgriff]

I don't agree with that. Some, maybe. I'm not into conspiracy theories, but there's a lot going on here that we don't know about.

I’ll quote Jim Quinn in an effort to be more clear:
“Using victims to create false heroes has now been elevated to an art form by politicians, the corporate media and mega-corporations to push whatever agenda supports their narrative. The propaganda machine is their most useful tool, as decades of dumbing down the public through government school indoctrination has created millions of pliable useful idiots who will believe anything presented by “experts” on the boob tube. The fear and panic created by politicians and the media about a virus only marginally more dangerous than the common flu is the perfect representation of this power over reality.”
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/...n/throttle-up/

[Battis]

I don't need Jim Quinn to lead me to "think critically." Of course people can act like sheep, of course some people like to be told what to think, and many people like to be afraid. Read STATE OF FEAR by Michael Creighton. It's the herd mentality. Say what you want about Donald Trump, but I believe that he is exactly what this country needs to survive. If he is part of some global conspiracy, well, then we're all screwed.

[Teddy (punchie)]

https://www.mygov.in/covid-19

Please open this and learn.

This is not this country's first fight with diseases. They are winning, doing a lot better then us. Plus one stop shopping, all the information is right there to be found one there main web page.

There death rate on the ones that get this is around .044 % this will climb as the 700-1000 people a day that are getting COVID-19 bodies wear down.

They are about a month or so behind us.

[Battis]

OK, I opened it but I'm not sure if it was worth the click.

[dragon813gt]

There death rate on the ones that get this is around .044 % this will climb as the 700-1000 people a day that are getting COVID-19 bodies wear down.

It will climb because more are dying. But it’s essentially a false number. They aren’t testing everyone. I can assure you that it will be like here. Recent tests have shown that a lot of people have antibodies already. We’re talking fifty fold what they’ve been reporting. This drops the mortality rate to low levels like the flu.

I’m not saying this virus isn’t dangerous. But it has to be kept in perspective. W/out testing we don’t know the real mortality rate. We will never know the true mortality rate because we haven’t done the testing in the past and we won’t test everyone in the future.

They throw out a high mortality rate figure to scare people. Fear is a powerful motivator. If you’re truly scared then stay home. I have a coworker who did this. Well I should say former coworker because they aren’t going to bring him back. But he is that scared that he’s staying home until he feels safe.

Pay attention to Sweden. Yes it has a small population which is scattered about in small villages. The numbers there are misleading as well. What they are doing is building up herd immunity. Right now we hear about how antibodies don’t mean you can’t be reinfected. They can’t prove that at this time but it’s a headline that gets your attention. They also haven’t proven that having antibodies does prevent reinfection. Sweden may have done their population a solid by letting them go about their daily lives and trusting them to do the right thing. Kind of like the US has done forever.

[Geraldo]

It's probably not worth posting because most of those who posted want to believe what they want to believe. Consider though, that it's not just about whether you live or die. You could be like this guy https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/26/h...entilator.html, who was healthy and spent 32 days on a ventilator. Even though it looks like he will get back to normal eventually, he's lost a lot of time in the hospital and recovery, and a pile of money on medical bills.

We know too little about this disease, including the number of strains or if some are more lethal than others, to make statements that it only kills X population. It makes people feel safer to say that only the old or unhealthy get sick/die, but it's not true.

[Battis]

As I said before, shut down the roads, and you'll save 40,000 - 50,00 lives per year, year after year. And when you finally reopen the roads, people will begin to die again. And even if you don't die in a car accident, you could be injured, maimed, crippled - I could find videos and stories of people who didn't die in car accidents but are messed up for life. Why, then, with this knowledge out there, do people still drive?

[Geraldo]

As I said before, shut down the roads, and you'll save 40,000 - 50,00 lives per year, year after year. And when you finally reopen the roads, people will begin to die again. And even if you don't die in a car accident, you could be injured, maimed, crippled - I could find videos and stories of people who didn't die in car accidents but are messed up for life. Why, then, with this knowledge out there, do people still drive?

Nice try, but it's a bad analogy. We've done a lot to reduce death and injury in car wrecks: seat belts, air bags, crush zones. To which you will no doubt say that the number of deaths in wrecks still numbers in the tens of thousands since we've mandated those features, while failing to note that there are far more cars on the road today.

[Battis]

Why is it a bad analogy? Death is death. Facts are facts. Numbers are numbers. I don't care what we've done to reduce death and injury - it still occurs. If dropping the speed limit to 55 MPH saved lives and gas, why has it been raised to 70+? If they can fly drones over a crowd to take people's temperatures, then they can disable text messaging while driving. So, 40,000 to 50,000 deaths from car accidents are acceptable...why? Because we've tried to reduce them? "Oh, we tried so we're covered." Naw.
You say it's a bad analogy because, apparently, it doesn't fit into your Corvid 19 mindset.

[dangitgriff]

Quarantining our healthy population should be a gigantic, flashing sign of tyranny to freedom-espousing American citizens.
Sadly, nope. Doesn’t even register.
R/Griff

[Battis]

I don't blame anyone for the initial quarantine, but, with the facts as we know them now, we should open up society again, or we'll never get it back. The one thing that I feared did not happen - they did not come for our guns.

[dtknowles]

Quarantining our healthy population should be a gigantic, flashing sign of tyranny to freedom-espousing American citizens.
Sadly, nope. Doesn’t even register.
R/Griff

What health people are under quarantine. Not me, I can go to the store and many places. I can even travel out of state. Not that I want to but I could still fly across the country for work or to visit family.

There is not quarantine. Non-essential business are closed or restricted. Large gatherings are prohibited. That is not a quarantine.

Tim

[dangitgriff]

Who gets to decide what businesses are essential or non-essential?
“Governments have no right or authority to tell us what business or other activity is ‘essential.’ Only in totalitarian states does the government claim this authority.” ~ Ron Paul

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/...nesses-matter/

[Walks]

My Wife thinks I had the chinese flu back in Feb/Mar. For about 3 weeks I was sick as a dog. Had most of the usual Flu symptoms and a bad sore throat. Antibiotics did no good, had 3 different cycles of them. Finally shook it off after 3 weeks of hardship. Never actually saw my DR. he just subscribed over the phone.
But looking back, the Wife really feels I had it. Daughter and Wife didn't catch it. But then they stayed well away from me.

One of the antibiotics was a Z-Pak, and I heard a DR. back east treated His chinese flu with a Z-Pak, along with a couple of other antibiotics.

And I know that some DR. treat patients with viral infections with antibiotics because the immune system is compromised while you're fighting the virus. And the antibiotics stave off other possible infections.

just saying

[dtknowles]

Who gets to decide what businesses are essential or non-essential?
“Governments have no right or authority to tell us what business or other activity is ‘essential.’ Only in totalitarian states does the government claim this authority.” ~ Ron Paul

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/04/...nesses-matter/

Maybe so but the USA has a precedent, they did it during WWII.

I think there is no doubt that some states have exceeded their legitimate and legal authority. There is a remedy for this, people harmed need to take them to court. If you can't show harm you have no standing to take them to court but certainly some businesses have been harmed and I think the case that some states have be arbitrary and capricious in their decisions is clear.

We also have a second remedy, the ballot box if a politician has exceeded their authority then vote them out of office. Some states even have recall provisions, you don't have to wait until the next election.

The third remedy is protests and civil disobedience. These have consequence of their own.

Tim

[Teddy (punchie)]

It will climb because more are dying. But it’s essentially a false number. They aren’t testing everyone. I can assure you that it will be like here. Recent tests have shown that a lot of people have antibodies already. We’re talking fifty fold what they’ve been reporting. This drops the mortality rate to low levels like the flu.

I’m not saying this virus isn’t dangerous. But it has to be kept in perspective. W/out testing we don’t know the real mortality rate. We will never know the true mortality rate because we haven’t done the testing in the past and we won’t test everyone in the future.

They throw out a high mortality rate figure to scare people. Fear is a powerful motivator. If you’re truly scared then stay home. I have a coworker who did this. Well I should say former coworker because they aren’t going to bring him back. But he is that scared that he’s staying home until he feels safe.

Pay attention to Sweden. Yes it has a small population which is scattered about in small villages. The numbers there are misleading as well. What they are doing is building up herd immunity. Right now we hear about how antibodies don’t mean you can’t be reinfected. They can’t prove that at this time but it’s a headline that gets your attention. They also haven’t proven that having antibodies does prevent reinfection. Sweden may have done their population a solid by letting them go about their daily lives and trusting them to do the right thing. Kind of like the US has done forever.

Sweden Stats : Are showing numbers running right around the rest of there Neighbors, % of cases to death is higher: 18926 tested with COVID-19 and 2274 dead. That's at 12 % of the people that have had it are dead. I don't call that a country I want to follow. They are higher then Poland, Austria, Ireland.

Remember we have a lot to learn about this Virus.

[jjnpg317]

During WW1 in 1918 and after the war in 1919, the USA was in another pandemic called the Spanish Flu. The Allies ( US/England/ France ) didn't carry much news of it because they didn't want Germany to know how it affected their armies. Spain was a netural and reported the pandemic, so that's why it was called the Spanish Flu. If I remember correctly, over 600,000 deaths in the US , and between 50 to 100 million worldwide.
Social distancing and other things like no crowds over 10-20 people together, events canceled, businesses closed, were used in 1918-1919 to try to keep the virus from spreading. The first reported case in the US was a soldier at Fort Riley, Kansas.

[roadie]

Sweden Stats : Are showing numbers running right around the rest of there Neighbors, % of cases to death is higher: 18926 tested with COVID-19 and 2274 dead. That's at 12 % of the people that have had it are dead. I don't call that a country I want to follow. They are higher then Poland, Austria, Ireland.

Remember we have a lot to learn about this Virus.

Is that 18,926 right, or a typo?

If it's right, that's not a whole lot of people considering Sweden has something like 10 million people. It must be a typo, cause Sweden hasn't enacted the same measures that most other countries have. With Sweden staying pretty much business as usual, the infection rate has to be quite high......I would expect in the millions.

I suppose we'll see fairly soon, as the incubation period of Covid-19 has been over for a while for a lot of Swedes. If the experts are right, Swedes will be dropping left, right, and center very soon.......Covid-19 is said to be incredibly infectious, and just as deadly.

Sweden has definitely set itself up as a test case for isolation.

[dtknowles]

Is that 18,926 right, or a typo?

If it's right, that's not a whole lot of people considering Sweden has something like 10 million people. It must be a typo, cause Sweden hasn't enacted the same measures that most other countries have. With Sweden staying pretty much business as usual, the infection rate has to be quite high......I would expect in the millions.

I suppose we'll see fairly soon, as the incubation period of Covid-19 has been over for a while for a lot of Swedes. If the experts are right, Swedes will be dropping left, right, and center very soon.......Covid-19 is said to be incredibly infectious, and just as deadly.

Sweden has definitely set itself up as a test case for isolation.

Just because the government has not ordered isolation does not mean that the people aren't doing some form of social distancing and other protections that smart people would. They have banned gatherings of more than 50 people and some other measures.

if 2,274 deaths is a real number and the total final number of deaths then in a population of 10 million that is 0.23 deaths per thousand or .023 percent of the population. If the USA had similar results then our total deaths would be more than 75,000. It would seem our restrictions are saving lives. To bad we would not do this voluntarily. It is too bad Sweden is not doing better voluntarily.

This years flu killed 14,000 people so far, 250,000 people were hospitalized and 26 million people had symptoms. That is for a flu season that started last fall and is pretty much over.

Tim