Things we will absolutely need should SHTF

[Nobade]

Modern guns for fighting, and won't need much ammo. I'll either be dead or win and take the other guys stuff. Flintlock muzzleloader for hunting, I make my own balls, gunpowder, rocks are found and there's lots of cloth around for patches. Not concerned with tumbling cases. Way more time is spent gardening and gathering wood and water than playing with guns anyhow.

[Tokarev]

Do you really think that in a true SHTF situation your going to be tumbling brass much less reloading?

Yes, am sure that I will be reloading, if not for actual warfare (milsurp is for that) than to train future generations.

Instead of a flour mill and storing stuff to grind why not just store a few 5 gallon bucks of different flour sealed in mylar bags.

I have more than that, but I am looking beyond however long my flour will last.

[BamaNapper]

Instead of a flour mill and storing stuff to grind why not just store a few 5 gallon bucks of different flour sealed in mylar bags.

I used to ask the same question. Flour doesn't have a long shelf life. It goes rancid pretty quickly, even in mylar. But the whole grains can be stored for many years. The wife just dumped some flour that was sealed and maybe only a year old. Of course, in a SHTF situation you probably won't care if your biscuit tastes a little off, but flour goes through rancid on the way to being unhealthy for you.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the ultimate prepper implement. Regardless of what's on your reloading bench, you need to have a still in the garage and know how to run it. It's medical, it's fuel, and it produces the ultimate bartering supply. Oh, and a yard full of fruit trees to feed it.

I agree with a previous comment that mentioned the Lee handloader. A supply of primers, a couple pounds of powder, powder measure, a small pot, dipper, molds, and a couple sticks of lube can keep you hunting for years. And all of it fits in a small tool bag so it's portable. What caliber? That's a whole other thread.

[dverna]

The bug going around got me thinking about basic necessities, and even though I always have, always had years worth of non-perishable food on hand, I bought a hand-crank flour mill and a hand-crank oil press. My line of thinking was that cooking without oil and baking without flour are simply impossible. The mill is already here, and I have tested it. Works wonders on everything but rice (due to its extremely hard grains it is hard to mill and has to be milled thrice). Now my wife's cookies and pancakes are better then ever.

Next on my list is a balance weight scale, for reloading, past the point where batteries could be obtained.

I can melt lead in a cooking pot.

The last concern is tumbling. What does everyone expect to use for tumbling, should no electric power be available? Or is it Okay to reload w/o tumbling the cases? My impression is that using a dirty, sooty case results in more heat transferred to the barrel. Any other disadvantages from that?

There is no need to tumble. If I wanted to, I would set up a bicycle on a stationary stand with a pulley system to a rotary tumbler. An hour would be good enough. But like others have commented, I will not be going through a lot of ammunition. I have thousands of cleaned cases on hand at all times now.

[Bazoo]

Anyone that is into prepping needs to read North American Guide to Safe Places by Joel Skousen. It has a lot of tips about stuff as well as maps of various things that are quite useful if one is planning to relocate.

It's likely many folks will survive a shtf event unscathed and if they have a stock of reloading supplies they may be able to shoot for leisure once it's calmed down.

Growing food is essential but storing enough to get you through in the event your garden is ravaged is equally important.

Those that are bristling with AR15s and Glocks, and the attitude that shooting first is the answer won't make it long. Those that lay low and offer a meager plate of what appears as the last of a couple pounds of beans will do far better. Word travels. Being known as the guy that offered to share his last rations is much better that being known as the guy setting on a hoard and is willing to enforce his "wont share" attitude.

[shaner]

I used to ask the same question. Flour doesn't have a long shelf life. It goes rancid pretty quickly, even in mylar. But the whole grains can be stored for many years. The wife just dumped some flour that was sealed and maybe only a year old. Of course, in a SHTF situation you probably won't care if your biscuit tastes a little off, but flour goes through rancid on the way to being unhealthy for you.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested the ultimate prepper implement. Regardless of what's on your reloading bench, you need to have a still in the garage and know how to run it. It's medical, it's fuel, and it produces the ultimate bartering supply. Oh, and a yard full of fruit trees to feed it.

I agree with a previous comment that mentioned the Lee handloader. A supply of primers, a couple pounds of powder, powder measure, a small pot, dipper, molds, and a couple sticks of lube can keep you hunting for years. And all of it fits in a small tool bag so it's portable. What caliber? That's a whole other thread.

Agreed on the still . Many a prepper will tell you to stock up on pints of liquor. They make great bartering tools and have a very long shelf life.

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[Tokarev]

Educate me on the flour rancidness! I only ever had a sack go rancid when those pesky, tiny red bugs spawned in it. I sieved away the bugs and tried to bake, but it tasted like sawdust and I tossed the rest.
In over 40 years that I eat home-baked, I never had a volume of flour go rancid, no matter for how long it sat in the cabinet. Sometimes for 3-4 years. I am talking about rye and wheat, unbleached flour.

[Nobade]

Anyone that is into prepping needs to read North American Guide to Safe Places by Joel Skousen. It has a lot of tips about stuff as well as maps of various things that are quite useful if one is planning to relocate.

It's likely many folks will survive a shtf event unscathed and if they have a stock of reloading supplies they may be able to shoot for leisure once it's calmed down.

Growing food is essential but storing enough to get you through in the event your garden is ravaged is equally important.

Those that are bristling with AR15s and Glocks, and the attitude that shooting first is the answer won't make it long. Those that lay low and offer a meager plate of what appears as the last of a couple pounds of beans will do far better. Word travels. Being known as the guy that offered to share his last rations is much better that being known as the guy setting on a hoard and is willing to enforce his "wont share" attitude.

Well put. Being small and unobtrusive is always best. During good times and bad.

[BamaNapper]

Educate me on the flour rancidness! I only ever had a sack go rancid when those pesky, tiny red bugs spawned in it. I sieved away the bugs and tried to bake, but it tasted like sawdust and I tossed the rest.
In over 40 years that I eat home-baked, I never had a volume of flour go rancid, no matter for how long it sat in the cabinet. Sometimes for 3-4 years. I am talking about rye and wheat, unbleached flour.

I can't speak for rye or unbleached flours, and your northern climate gives you an advantage over those of us in south Alabama. Most of the forums and sites discussing long term food storage have tips to extend the shelf life of flour, but tend to list maybe a year and a half as the practical limit. At that point just about all say it's going to begin to go rancid. Mylar bags, buckets, oxygen absorbers, vacuum sealing all extend the life. The problem seems to stem from the oils and trace moisture in the flour when you get it. As a side note, lots of mention of freezing your flour for a couple days prior to putting it up for storage to kill any of those little bugs and their offspring that may be in it. From an article over on survivopedia:
Sugar and white rice have a shelf lives of literally forever as far as anyone knows, but flour and brown rice are only good for about 15 months. After that, both will start to go rancid. Though both may last longer, especially if stored in airtight containers in cool, dark environments. You’ll know if either have gone bad because they’ll smell sour. This lends credence to the ideas of canning, or to vacuum sealing, then storing in buckets because both canning and vacuum sealing keep out the air that facilitates spoilage.

I'm thinking that if enough effort is put into the process, flour could be put up for long term storage. I only say that because some of the 25-year survival products out there offer pasta dishes. Or maybe the process of making the pasta stabilizes the flour. I'd offer to try a couple methods but I wouldn't be able to get back with a report for a decade or so.

[fiberoptik]

Bugs hate bay leaves. Putting a few in the bottom, layers every few inches, then on top prevents eggs hatching . Get it packed as tightly as you can. A small square of aluminum foil with a cotton ball moistened with hi test rubbing alcohol, light. Just before going out, cap & seal with packaging tape. CO2 pushes out oxygen. Dry ice does same. Wait till “smoke” overflows from dry ice & no more air in container. Did whole wheat 15 years ago. Still tastes fine. No bugs. Wouldn’t sprout though.
Freezing must be done in deep freeze . Twice. A month apart. Kills any that are there, eggs . Then if any did lay eggs gets the last ones.
Best bet is whole wheat stored, not flour.


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[GhostHawk]

After sleeping on it for several nights I pulled the trigger on a small hand cranked oil press.

"Piteba Nut and Seed Oil Expeller Oil press Price: $155.99"

Stimulus money of course. Thanks Uncle Sam.

[Tokarev]

Next thing, I am thinking of sickles.

Our agricultural sector has planted, but they may not be able to harvest. If we had sickles, we could harvest cereals by hand and gather at least enough to last a family through the winter. Seeing perfectly good wheat, barley, or oats just drop into the dirt would be very disheartening for me. Corn can be picked by hand, but cereals absolutely need sickles.

I have one. I can make more since I have tool steel flat bars, anvil, and hammers. But making them takes time and resources, so buying a couple per family now makes sense to me.

[mattw]

For a SHTF situation, I plan to be able to supply myself with 9mm, 30/30 and 223. I may further consider a 22 takedown of some kind for small edible game and lower noise levels. After all may as well not advertise you have taken food. We can and dry some foods plus know how to crop about anything we need. This would of course prevent long travels, but a fortified, stocked home is a good thing.

Tumbers.. no need. For years I have been shooting bench guns and the standard clean for me is to use a mild brass cleaner on a cloth and to clean the necks and neck size the brass. As far as casting... it is an enjoyment to me and has lead to an excess of cast boolits. Again, precludes far ranging travel, but I am good with that.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Do you really think that in a true SHTF situation your going to be tumbling brass much less reloading? If things get that bad you had better have your ammo already loaded. Even having a flour mill is kind or out there for most of us, chances are unless you live in a rural area your going to be displaced or dead from defending your stuff.

Instead of a flour mill and storing stuff to grind why not just store a few 5 gallon bucks of different flour sealed in mylar bags. When you run out of grains to grind the flour mill will be of no use unless you are thinking you can grow grains but here again if you have to grow your own grains chances are you will be displaced and starting over somewhere new. If you enjoy grinding your own stuff for everyday use thats great but just as a SHTF deal there are better ways.

Most preppers have this fantasy that they will live out there days in there home surrounded by piles of there supply's but in reality most will be displaced with what they can carry or be dead from trying to defend there stuff from the hoards of people that want it. Its impossible for a few people to defend a house or small property 24/7.

Sad to say, but I think Muddydogs is "spot on". You can be armed to the teeth, have a somewhat defensible home, have a food supply that will last for years, a water supply, but one or two people don't stand much of a chance against a group of marauders.
Sooner or later you'll have to sleep, get outflanked, or get burned out. The best solution is to have a group of neighbors determined to survive for mutual aid, or even a small village full of likeminded people.

The non-event that got me interested in prepping was Y2K. I've still got beans and rice stored back in 1999 that seem perfectly good. I have noticed that the older beans are the longer it seems to take to cook them. I buy 5 lb. bags of flour and store them unopened in the tall plastic coffee cans. I've got some of that 10 and 12 years old that seems o.k. I think that some brands of it are irradiated to kill any weevil eggs that might be included. Anyway, nothing I have has hatched out bugs. Given a dry environment, pasta seems good forever.

One thing that doesn't seem to store well past maybe 7 or 8 years is tomato based products. I think the contents is acidic and starts eating the cans. Some canned fruits don't store very long either. There aren't too many canned meats available, but you can find canned chicken, some canned beef, Spam, corned beef. Too bad the O.P.'s digestive system doesn't agree with corned beef . It makes great corned beef hash. As noted, we'll all lose a lot of food when the power goes off and the freezers defrost, so having some canned meat is about the only alternative.

Once you decide to melt lead in a cooking pot, don't ever use the pot for food preparation again.

DG

[Tokarev]

Agreed in principle, but I have reasons to believe that I can deal with marauders. First of all, our family is not 1 or 2. We have resources and training to perform sentry duty on a shift basis, around o'clock. This is why I am interested in a renewable supply of ammunition. Many will find themselves in this situation, once they will realize that families will be better off concentrated in one location, whether it is for their defense or for laboring together. So this conversation does make at least some sense. I contemplated muzzleloading but decided against it. Even though I have enough components to make tons of BP, it is still inferior to the crates of milsurp ammo that is cheap and available. If I would have to make mortars or cannons, it will become a different topic.

[BrassMagnet]

I think the best hunting rifles for SHTF times will be air rifles for small game and black powder cartridge rifles loaded with cast and smokeless loads. The air rifles will be quiet and the BPCRs with cast and smokeless large caliber Boolits will knock down big game without a tremendous loss to bloodshot.
I also believe you won't "go hunting" as that will be a waste of time and dangerous, too. I believe you will shoot targets of opportunity that wander into your garden or orchard. Can you plan far enough ahead to plant them at appropriate ranges for easy success?

[Idz]

In WW2 the occupied countries could not get gasoline so they made a still to produce wood-gas to operate their tractors and trucks. Years ago in the USA FEMA published a brochure how to make a wood-gas still to power gasoline operated generators in emergencies when gas wasn't available. If you have pigs and chickens you can also build a methane gas system to run stoves, heaters, and gas engines. If you want liquid fuel the wood-gas can be catalyzed to produce methanol which can run gasoline engines.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive been using digital scales for reloading about exclusively for the last 15 maybe 20 years. Never had one bit of trouble with a load because of it. Got this new fangled thing on my truck too. Its called fuel injection? Wonder how that will work out???

Bevare of plague! Like all rodents, they carry it.



I have Neva digital scale that is accurate to 0.2 gr. Getting very consistent loads with it. You are probably referring to 0.01 oz kitchen scale?

[dverna]

Agreed in principle, but I have reasons to believe that I can deal with marauders. First of all, our family is not 1 or 2. We have resources and training to perform sentry duty on a shift basis, around o'clock. This is why I am interested in a renewable supply of ammunition. Many will find themselves in this situation, once they will realize that families will be better off concentrated in one location, whether it is for their defense or for laboring together. So this conversation does make at least some sense. I contemplated muzzleloading but decided against it. Even though I have enough components to make tons of BP, it is still inferior to the crates of milsurp ammo that is cheap and available. If I would have to make mortars or cannons, it will become a different topic.

Good call on the BP. I must have 150 pounds of smokeless. I will be dead before I, and our group will use it up...LOL. If the SHTF, I would produce a few silencers, as I have the ability to do that, but would not need them to hunt with. With a MAG (Mutual Aid Group) quietly harvesting game is not necessary.

Where I live a MAG makes sense. Quite two families farm. Many others raise livestock and/or have gardens. I will not grow food but help others who do and barter for it to compliment my preps. Three are ex-Military and bring that training/knowledge. We lack medical personnel and that is our major deficiency. My doctor competes in High Power (giving us another sniper) and would be a great addition if he would come on board. Fortunately, there are few children. We would have about 30-35 adults in the group.

Just as preppers/normal folk will need to band together, marauders will do the same. A small group can survive for a while but not long term. The challenge will be linking up with other MAG's as a SHTF event extends, and avoiding raids on those we need in the future. The need for leadership and discipline is crucial.

[Tokarev]

The next item on the list is communication equipment.
I have walkie-talkie with hands-free. They run on 3x AA batteries as well as on the expensive proprietary batteries from Motorola that I cannot even find new anymore.
Batteries are the weakest link for a group, but the reliable communication is the weakest link between groups.
There has to be a reliable way to differentiate MAGs from raiders, but I do not know one. Is asking them a quiz on reloading reliable enough?