Forming 577-.450

[.455 Webley]

I know this is not an easy one and my first few went badly. My 24ga brass was annealed. (Drill socket spun for a 9 count them a water dunk. ) I have used light amounts of lube and gone slow into the Lee sizing die. My results have been poor so far. Should I clean up the case mouths with sand paper? What tricks can I try for better results?

[fred2892]

The majority of creased necks begin at the case mouth so most definitely yes, clean up your mouths with some 180 or 240 grit paper.
You need to make a few passes, so go say 1/2”, back out and redistribute the lube then in again for another 1/2” and repeat. A lot of it is done by feel and once you get used to it you will be forming in only a couple of passes or when you get really brave you can form them in one pass.
(You are using imperial sizing wax?)

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[.455 Webley]

Yes I have a very old tin of imperial. But have been having better luck with the rcbs lube that came with my lube pad.

[SOFMatchstaff]

I am 75 cases into a 200 case run, and so far I've lost 7 and have 4 more that will be short. There is no way I would try a one die regimen. First I trim the case to 2.290 in the lathe and de-burr. Any case mouth defect or blemish will start a wrinkle that will either crack or follow down the neck. I start with a RCBS bullet puller die body that will reduce the neck to .580 almost to the shoulder depth, then the next die is a 338 RUM size die that takes it to .540. you "may" need to de-burr the case mouth again at this point. Then the last die is the Lee size die for the 577/450, push the case in increments by screwing the die down bit by bit to a point just shy of setting the shoulder to proper headspace length. I tried a one stroke shot on the last die, but didnt care for the feel, I'm using the big RCBS press that I load 50BMG on so there is plenty of leverage. I thought a second annealing might help, bad idea, it caused the case neck to telescope into the body, so if you have to do one, keep it AWAY from the shoulder. I set the die so the handle goes over center(max leverage) and set the die down for each stroke until its almost at your chosen length, this has kept the shoulder from oil-canning form all the lube on the case. This whole process will stretch the case almost .050 so you end up with the desired 2.340+- case length, and a case mouth that may need to be trued.

I found that I had to set up with the Lee die in between the .580 and the .540 to just slightly round the case mouth before going into the 338 die, it was just to close for a easy entry, and lost a case or two by crushing at the entry. the power of the press made it hard to feel the case when it crushed.

Once the forming is done, then I will set the die for a proper dimension when I actually start loading ammo. This whole process is a bit of a PIA, but necessary if you want to shoot the bloody rifle......

[redneck1]

Your going to get a ton of different advice , some good some bad .
I'll share what worked for me .

I did make a intermediate die , I don't think it's absolutely needed but it did help .
But here's the top three things that made my venture successful.

First is , light annealing , to soft and things go bad .
Second is getting case mouths as perfectly square as you can ... this was a huge help for me .
Last is to use a whole lot of very short strokes to firm the case .
By short I mean your only looking to form about .010 each stroke .
Give the case a bit of a turn after each stroke and with a tiny dab of imperial case wax on the finger tip re-lube every couple strokes .
Once you get a feel for what your doing and a rythem this goes quickly .

I'm also going to add that a very big part of making these cases is having a feel for what's going on .
What works for me , or Jim , bob, Dave or anyone might not work for you , success here is going to rely very heavily on you learning what is going to work for you ....

[.455 Webley]

Thanks for the input guys. I will spring for that collet type bullet pulling die. That may help.

[sharps4590]

This is the old British service cartridge for the Martini/Henry, correct? Is brass not available for that or is it cost prohibitive? Reason I ask is probably 30 years ago I did the work up for a load for one for a late friend of mine. I know he didn't form the brass as he didn't load and I didn't do it. He had a couple boxes of brass when he gave me the rifle to work with. It isn't important, I'm just curious.

[.455 Webley]

It can be had from Australia however at $140 per 20 i opted to get the dies and be able to make my own. Even with the extra step die and more scrap then I wanted i will come out with more cases for less money and the pride of making it myself.

[john.k]

Good advice/no connection.....If you live in the US ,get some formed brass form XRing Services....formed CBC cases for around $2 each..........Ive formed hundreds of the cases ,only because of ITAR.....Now here s stupid ...a CBC 24ga case is shotgun ,ITAR exempt.....neck it ,and its now a rifle case ,and ITAR controlled.

[john.k]

More good advice....if you plan to use the Lee dies ,get the neck dia of the forming die reamed out to .500".........IMHO ,the fails happen in that last little bit of reduction ,and .5" is the correct neck OD for the CBC cases anyway.......All these things have been known since the first CBC 24ga became available ,for some reason newbies think they are the first....and refuse to take advice.

[Lionel Allen]

RCC Brass seems to make some, but it looks like they run at almost $8 per.
You would have headstamped brass in your rifle's flavour.
When I formed 30-30 into 219 Zipper I resized in stages. I also had an intermediate 25-35 die, but would partial resize, then turn the die a few more turns and run the cases through the die again.
Was tedious, but now I have a few hundred Zipper cases to play with.

[sharps4590]

Ahh Bertram. I don't remember that's what it was but he would have bought some, I'm certain. Or perhaps something else might have been available back then. Doesn't matter as I was just curious and thank you.

[SOFMatchstaff]

I did another 50 this afternoon, and didn't loose any. I think the first ones I lost were due to trying to size the un trimmed cases. I decided to trim to 2.300 and then anneal, then into the bullet puller die. As long as the case mouths were perfect, I had no bad starts or crinkles. The lube I'm using is Blue Magic Hair conditioner, J Strickland &Co, in the hair care section at your local Wally world. Cheap and works for 50BMG and down, smells nice and doesn't interfere with nose picken, butt an head scratchin, or trips to the head to deal with the water pill attacks. It take me 13 minutes to trim 25 cases on the lathe, 5min to anneal, and about 30min to do all the size/form operations, so figure an hour all tolled with die changes and other stuff that usually bites me in the ****..

[john.k]

I found moly powder is best ,as it cant lube crinkle cases .....I dont use a reloading press at all ,just overloading it IMHO,and certainly overloading your arm...Yes I have arthritis.

[elmacgyver0]

Many years ago I made some out of copper tubing and 20 gauge cases.
Attachment 261058

[.455 Webley]

Any tips on how to trim these things for us non lathe owning guys?

[toot]

I also use the go in about 1/2 inch back out wipe very little I S LUBE onto the neck and in 1/2 inch and repeat until complete takes a bit of time but as said it works. you will almost allways get a few slight creases / wrinkles, not too panic they will shoot out at the first fireing.

[fred2892]

Any tips on how to trim these things for us non lathe owning guys?

Why do you want to trim? If you are forming from 24ga brass then after forming you shouldn’t need to trim. When I first did this about 15 years ago, I trimmed before forming and the cases ended up short. Just smooth the necks and form. Why not go over to the MH section on the British Militaria Forums and read the many threads on forming MH brass.


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[SOFMatchstaff]

Any tips on how to trim these things for us non lathe owning guys?

Yes, the old Pacific style trimmer used the shell holder for the cartridge you were loading, Hornady now makes a variation of it called a Cam Lock (#050140). It will work with the Lee shell holder for the MH 577/450. There is one problem, the cutter diameter is not big enough to do the un-formed case, so all your trimming will have to be done after the case is fully formed.

As to why even bother to trim?? same reason you weigh your powder charges, uniformity and safety. jeeez

[elmacgyver0]

If you don't have a lathe?
I will think about it and see what I come up with.
I don't remember using a lathe.