Rust bluing Marlin

[shootrj2003]

This is my first step into doing real bluing,I have been every where with cold blue and despite all the "newest ,and best"as I have always suspected they will always be "lowest and best" choice ,a good Band-Aids maybe.Cerrakote and others are not traditional enough for me ,not on my present favorites( traditional walnut and steel rifles) on tactical creatures maybe but even then parkerizing is plenty colorful,I am old school.
I have time and skills on my side nowadays,but I don't t want all the expense and rigamarole of hot salts blue,so what's more traditional than rust blue?
I will state my plan ,please advise of any problems.first I already refinished to a 220 grit(:Marlin 336)but the bluing set up not all in place so I reoiled parts to prevent unwanted rust.when ready I will wash in hot water and Dawn,then boil in our solution or TCP ,TCP is unfamiliar to me but safer than lye but I am familiar with the cautious of lye. Than a final boil in water hopefully I will not see any signs of seepage from the receiver barrel junction after this,I will at this point handle with laundered cotton or nitrile gloves and while the steel is still hot apply with cotton swabs the solution ,my choice being Brownell's classic rust blue,Pilkingtons not available,but I am not yet truly particular to any one solution,( not enough experience to tell but it does not seem like much difference to me anyway).
At this point comes a juncture,originally I had decided to boil,thus the tank,this process is familiar to me,rust ,boil ,card repeat, further study has tickled in me an interest in making a steam set up using a vertical PVC,or,ABS PIPE using a steam source,teakettle ,wallpaper steamer etc.Questions arise for me,obviously the parts should be hot before the solution is applied so boil to heat or will the steam tube heat them?won't the steam prematurely rust the parts before they get hot and get the solution put on?Is this a problem?
Is the steam continuously run while rusting is occurring .it seems ,I am confused here,in the boiling process there is, heat the metal,solution the metal,rust the metal,boil and card the metal ,repeat...with steam it seems you steam to heat or at least heat the metal somehow,solution the metal,place the metal in the steamer to rust,then at some point after red rust forms,you do something to make the rust turn to ferric oxide or magnetite,something to replace the boiling ,is not the steam constantly running or is it not running while rusting is taking place,and then run as hot and steamy as you can once rust is present in a good even coat .What prevents condensation and drips in this interim rusting time?hey! heh !sorry just want to get this straight,your answers are very appreciated.I am sure more will drop up !thanks

[rking22]

Steam or boil, both serve the same purpose of converting red rust to black oxide. Polish metal to 340, no higher, then remove all oil( simple green works for me). Apply your chosen solution and hang in hot box with 80% or so humidity to rust, screen porch in Tennessee generally serves me. After a while, few hours to overnight, you will have fine red rust. Now boil of steam until surface is black, and then a while longer. Remove parts with CLEAN gloves and card off the fluff. Wire wheel from Brownell or deoiled steel wool. While still hot/warm reapply the solution. Hang in the hot box, porch and continue till you like the result, or it will no longer rust. Simple process, timeconsuming, but straightforward. Never touch parts with bare hands or gloves that could be contaminated with oil, skin oil or any other type.

[waksupi]

You are over thinking it.

Degrease the metal, apply a light coat of rust solution. The metal doesn't need to be hot. I degrease with lacquer thinner and a paper towel. Wipe it down until you get a clean towel. I wear plastic throw away gloves from the Dollar Store.

When you see a layer of oxidation, steam, buff out, and repeat.

Wash metal and buff with Brownell's blueing wheel. Don't wait until you have a crust of rust, you don't want that for best results. Just a light coat of oxidation.

I used pvc quite a few times, then found it would eventually start melting and tipping over.

I went to a piece of stove pipe, much better.

I just hang parts in the stove pipe in a pot with a bit of tap water water in my boiling pot for a rust cabinet, and a cover. IT does not need to be boiling, in fact, that would probably not be a good way to go, as it could cause spots.

If you aren't in a hurry, it will do the job just leaning in the corner.

[LAGS]

I agree with Walsupi,
You are making rust bluing more complicated than it really is.
Stick to the basics and don't try to reinvent the wheel.
I do not currently do the steam bluing , but have had very good results over the past 10 years just Boiling my parts and letting them rust overnight between coats.
You are right about de greasing the parts.
But don't use anything that will leave any kind of residue on the metal.
That is why my final cleaning is always done with acetone.

[Bent Ramrod]

You may be mixing up the directions for slow-rust bluing and “Express bluing.”

The latter solution contains (IIRC) chlorate ion to oxidize the steel surface. You keep it in a cup suspended in your boiling water tank. Take the part out, rub it with degreased fine steel wool, dunk it back again to heat it to the max, take it out, wipe on another coat of the hot solution as soon as the barrel dries, wait a few seconds for the solution to dry, back into the tank, and repeat until done. It goes fairly quickly; 20-30 minutes or so per part.

Slow rust bluing has the part and solution mostly at room temperature. The rust appears after a few hours, depending on the relative humidity. (Here in the desert, I made a tent by taping together a couple dry-cleaner bags, with a hanging frame made of Tinker Toys and a couple wet sponges inside.) You boil the part in water, or play steam over it until the rust turns black, card or steel wool the loose stuff off, coat again with the rusting solution (if it’s still warm, no problem, but it doesn’t have to be), back in the rusting cabinet, check again in a few hours, repeat. It generally takes four or five days for me, at two rusts a day.

The slow rust blue seems to build from the pores in the metal outward, resulting in a much tougher coating, more impervious to wear. The Express and hot-dunk niter jobs blue from the surface in, and don’t seem to have the wear resistance.

[Chill Wills]

There is good info here.
I will add, if even only doing one rifle, I recommend getting the better of the two carding brushes Brownells offers. $25 or $30 and more then well worth it! You can do SO much with it in a short time that steel wool can't.

I have been using Loaral Mountain Forge browning and blueing - it is great! It have a degreaser in it and I can be lax with the handling of the parts and still get great looking jobs.
I have been at it almost nonstop for the last year and a half. Novice still and have not used any other product. I do have this product down well.
I have been doing a lot of stuff other than guns (in addition to guns). I have played with boiling times, Steam, tap water, filtered water and distilled water. I have tried not degreasing parts and just washing them in dish soap.

With the product I use, wash with dish soap and toothbrush is good. Use distilled water. Tap water is not as good but will work.
No benefit to boiling a long time as 30 seconds to 3 minutes will be plenty.

[22cf45]

I've probably used all the rust bluing solutions, then I found Laurel Mountain. I will never use anything else. It is very forgiving. With the others, for one reason or another, at times I would get a blotch or streak that would not go away with repeated applications. Ended up having to re-polish and start over. With Laurel Mountain, any imperfections go away with subsequent applications. Great stuff. I wouldn't worry about having to apply the solution to a warm or hot metal, I get some of my best rust on cold metal. Also, I wouldn't let any rust overnight, it might rust more than you want in a 80% humidity.
Phil

[Deadeye Bly]

I agree with Chill Wills here on the use of Laurel Mountain Forge barrel browning. You are way over complicating the process. It is easy. I wish I had not been intimidated by the process for years. Prep the parts, rust them and boil them, do it again until you are satisfied. With the LMF you don't need gloves and you can use steel wool without degreasing it. You still have to be careful handling the parts. Do NOT plug your bore. It will dry quickly as it is hot when removed from the water. I run a dry patch thru the bore to make sure no droplets remain. Apply additional coats as thin as possible in smooth even strokes. Do not rub a spot to try to get it to improve, it will eventually get better if you just keep going. The first one or two coats will look like hell but keep going and it will all even out. Sometimes 4 or 5 boilings is all it takes and sometimes more are needed. When you don't get any more rust action between coats you are done. Use distilled water. Good luck with your endeavor.

[shootrj2003]

I found this old post,and decided to renew it,I’ve done a few rifles now and simplified my system greatly over my original post,thanks for your original help guys!
I now use steam exclusively,except for the original cleaning of the parts,I now wash everything in hot water and dawn,if really dirty I might then boil in a tank,wether I boil or not,the last cleaning is with acetone or alcohol and I use dishwashing gloves to handle anything after hot water and dawn,after this initial sanitizing,I use Brownells or Laurel Mountain, apply it with clean cotton balls,I have a sweat box made from my Lil’ Indian smoker that was made longer,but if it’s humid that’s not always neccesarily,I let it rust for about 4 hours ,when red I turn on my homemade electric steamer ,in 15 minutes it’s ready ,then I heat the parts with a torch and put them in the tube,(I heat them so there’s no condensation and consequent dripping or streaking before the steam heats them),in about 5- 10 minutes they come out and I card them with hand carding brushes and acetone and mayb degreased #0000 steel wool and acetone,then repeat until done usually about 5 reps is good,pretty simple and about a day of work.Steam is way easier and cheaper then boiling.