Is the word of God absolute????

[1hole]

... One verse that always chaps my hide is in the Christmas Story where, in these "new revised modern" versions they state, ".....you will find the child laying in a feed trough wrapped in bands of clothing." OMG! How can they murder that classic that way.

I don't understand. A manger is a feeding trough for farm animals and swaddling cloths are strips of old fabric that poor jews used as cleaning cloths and also used to wrap around infants; what's bad about that?

[dtknowles]

I don't understand. A manger is a feeding trough for farm animals and swaddling cloths are strips of old fabric that poor jews used as cleaning cloths and also used to wrap around infants; what's bad about that?

I think his point was why dumb it down from a college vocabulary to a middle school vocabulary and remove the poetic sense of the more common version.

The KJV is such a more moving story.

Tim

[1hole]

I think....

Ah, you think?

My question was to him who actually knows what he meant but I thank you for generously sharing your thinking and putting words into his mouth even tho that's not sanitary.

[bangerjim]

I personally like the poetic literary flairs of the KJV and the way things are stated in Olde English. I just grew up reading and memorizing that version. Read what you like. I could care less what version you read. At least you ARE reading the Bible, unlike most people in America today!

banger

[DickelDawg]

Absolutely!!

[WILCO]

So, is the word of God absolute????

Yes and so is the U.S. Constitution.

[frkelly74]

Absolutely!

[Wayne Smith]

Yes and so is the U.S. Constitution.

No the Constitution can be and has been amended. added to. God's word is absolute unlike the Constitution - there are no amendments to it.

[1hole]

No the Constitution can be and has been amended. added to. God's word is absolute unlike the Constitution - there are no amendments to it.

Roger that. But only God knows how many people (and even whole denominations) have tried to do so.

Those who wrongly spout about the Bible, "I believe this but I don't believe that ...", (As if what they do or don't believe matters to God!) are making petty antichrists of themselves AND anyone foolish enough to be influenced by them! There is some really bad spiritual juju in that.

[1hole]

I personally like the poetic literary flairs of the KJV and the way things are stated in Olde English. I just grew up reading and memorizing that version.

Me too. But, things change and I'm flexible about things that don't really matter. My grandchildren grew up on newer (actually more correct) translations than my old Scofield KJV and they in turn are training my great grandchildren on current versions; I like that too.

[Wayne Smith]

The earliest documents available to the translators of the KJV dated to the 5th or late 4th centuries. We now have documents dating to the early 2nd century and clearly have closer to the original for our newer translations. For the Old Testament we have documents dating to the first century BC. This is remarkable and shows the consistency of the copyists over the centuries. The only major error was the end of the Gospel of Mark in the KJV and this has been corrected, even in the NKJV.

I started memorizing in the KJV as it was the only English available to me at the time. Since college and Grad school whenever I study I have at least three translations open in front of me. The nuances of the original are more available that way. As a result I cannot quote a scripture easily because I combine translations. (I do not read or speak the original languages)

As an example of the problems of translation - no language translates one on one - I was once on a Missions Conference Committee at our Church in NH. We decided on our theme verse for the conference and I asked the committee which translation they wanted to use? They looked at me blankly, so I offered to find out the variations of the verse (I think it was in Galatians, but don't remember). This was before the internet, by the way. From my library I found 27 different readings of the verse, all saying the same thing but with varying emphasis. Three (original and two alternate) of the readings were from the NIV Study Bible which gave two marginal readings. Translation is not a simple task and decisions have to be made along the way which of the possibilities should we choose here. Usually the strongest or linguistically most consistent is chosen, but sometimes theology drives the choice.

The story of the Bible, God's plan of salvation, is plain and consistent. The character of God is consistent and plain. The fine details are sometimes in question.

[exile]

Should I comment on this thread? Yes / No I mean, you guys probably already know what I would say, so, no. Hope you all have a good day!

exile

[1hole]

.... you guys probably already know what I would say, so, no. Hope you all have a good day!

Interesting comment. You're commenting to tell us you aren't going to comment? Well, this is the first time you've appeared on this thread so .... ??? I, for one, have no idea what you might say but it's kind of you to tell us you won't comment.

Hope you have a nice day too.

[Rizzo]

Roger that. But only God knows how many people (and even whole denominations) have tried to do so.

Those who wrongly spout about the Bible, "I believe this but I don't believe that ...", (As if what they do or don't believe matters to God!) are making petty antichrists of themselves AND anyone foolish enough to be influenced by them! There is some really bad spiritual juju in that.

Cheesh!
Now you are calling people an antichrist for not believing every word of the Bible.
Where do you get that thinking?

"Bad spiritual juju" eh?
LOL!!
This coming from someone who makes snarky, mocking and insulting comments about other's belief in Karma.
Juju is a folk magic in West Africa.
Why not use a more relative term that is supported in the Bible.
It is called Karma.

[1hole]

Cheesh!
Now you are calling people an antichrist for not believing every word of the Bible.
Where do you get that thinking?

"Bad spiritual juju" eh?
LOL!!
This coming from someone who makes snarky, mocking and insulting comments about other's belief in Karma.
Juju is a folk magic in West Africa.
Why not use a more relative term that is supported in the Bible.
It is called Karma.

Antichrist: anyone who offers a different path to God than His way while claiming to be a (small "c") christian but deny orthodox (Biblical) Christianity is offering up an alternate (small "g") god, is in fact a (small "a") antichrist; I get that from scripture.

Bad "juju" is often used to describe the bad life effects of bad spiritual teaching. Are you offended by that common application of Africa's animistic word?

Do you actually take Hindu "Karma" serious? There's no Karma, as it's properly defined, in scripture. We have a delightful young Indian family (committed Christians) in my small church; they sure don't take Karma - or reincarnation - serious. Nor are they they respectful of some of the rest of their scattered family's wacky (their word) Hindu beliefs.

So, I once asked someone here who, or what, is in control of dispensing Karma and you think that's "snarky"? Okay, but I think you're more than a bit hypersensitive; are you a modern PC snowflake? (And I'll note that I've not yet seen an answer to my question.)

[a danl]

When you find the proper interpretation of God's words let us know.

If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it.

Tim

tim, why do you always feel that you have to jump in with a negative remark. why don't you keep them to yourself. you have nothing to add with your way of thinking. the bible speaks for itself and it does not change, because it is written and God does not change ever and He does not lie..

[dtknowles]

tim, why do you always feel that you have to jump in with a negative remark. why don't you keep them to yourself. you have nothing to add with your way of thinking. the bible speaks for itself and it does not change, because it is written and God does not change ever and He does not lie..

First look again at what I wrote. It is not negative but observational. I did not say the bible is bad, just that it is subject to interpretation. In the context of the discussion about the word of God being absolute, that seems appropriate and not negative. Yes, the bible speaks for itself but it does change as much discussion in this thread reveals. Even with those changes the major points of the bible do remain pretty constant. I don't know how you can know that God does not change. The Bible reveals God mind does change for example the New Covenant. While things on Earth often seem troubled, I wonder if God did not change his mind about the end of times. It seems to have been put off a long time, maybe God will give Humans a reprieve. Let us struggle for a few more millennia. We do have some serious challenges but they seem to be something we could manage.

Tim

[Wag]

Occasionally, a title catches my eye. As a former believer, no atheist, I generally don't writ much in religious threads. My experience with religion was always negative but, for what it's worth, I've since encountered a lot of genuinely wonderful people who are believers. That said, there are still those who spend more time contending with each other over minutiae than they do living their religion. Most Christians seem to get it right, though.

I don't remember the religion in as much detail as I did 20 years ago. There was a time when I knew the Bible inside out and backward. So, as I read the thread title, the verse that came to mind was:

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." --Matthew 10:16

(Yes, I had to Google it up to get the wording and the citation! Like I said, it's been a while.......)

Most philosophical and scriptural references are subject to interpretation. This one applies here to suggest that not everything is available to us in a book or two, not readily known by any one particular person or minister, not easily understood in a general sense. Certainly, no black and white interpretation can be had with any subject material.

So, Jesus is quoted in the New Testatment saying that we have to use our own heads for living in the world. And that suggests that the word of god, as you may believe it, is not so absolute. If god is telling use to think for ourselves, we can't assume that he told anyone everything there is to know. IIRC, there are over 60 authors in the Bible we know about. Each had their own perspective, insight, intuition, eyes-on encounters, etc. They imputed their own ideals and thoughts. If they were all quoting a benevolent god, then they would have been a lot more consistent and less contradictory.

Anyhoo, there is surely no way to take the Bible as absolute. The things we have in our lives today didn't exist 2,000+ years ago. That means we have to impute the words of the Bible for our purposes but in the end analysis, Christianity is so fractured into so many sects, many of whom truly hate each other, that we can't know what the absolute word of god really is.

Very UN-Christian of the Christian churches.

And truly not absolute.

--Wag--

[a danl]

Occasionally, a title catches my eye. As a former believer, no atheist, I generally don't writ much in religious threads. My experience with religion was always negative but, for what it's worth, I've since encountered a lot of genuinely wonderful people who are believers. That said, there are still those who spend more time contending with each other over minutiae than they do living their religion. Most Christians seem to get it right, though.

I don't remember the religion in as much detail as I did 20 years ago. There was a time when I knew the Bible inside out and backward. So, as I read the thread title, the verse that came to mind was:

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." --Matthew 10:16

(Yes, I had to Google it up to get the wording and the citation! Like I said, it's been a while.......)

Most philosophical and scriptural references are subject to interpretation. This one applies here to suggest that not everything is available to us in a book or two, not readily known by any one particular person or minister, not easily understood in a general sense. Certainly, no black and white interpretation can be had with any subject material.

So, Jesus is quoted in the New Testatment saying that we have to use our own heads for living in the world. And that suggests that the word of god, as you may believe it, is not so absolute. If god is telling use to think for ourselves, we can't assume that he told anyone everything there is to know. IIRC, there are over 60 authors in the Bible we know about. Each had their own perspective, insight, intuition, eyes-on encounters, etc. They imputed their own ideals and thoughts. If they were all quoting a benevolent god, then they would have been a lot more consistent and less contradictory.

Anyhoo, there is surely no way to take the Bible as absolute. The things we have in our lives today didn't exist 2,000+ years ago. That means we have to impute the words of the Bible for our purposes but in the end analysis, Christianity is so fractured into so many sects, many of whom truly hate each other, that we can't know what the absolute word of god really is.

Very UN-Christian of the Christian churches.

And truly not absolute.

--Wag--

wag, if you could , would you try to find the quote where Jesus said that we have to use our own heads for living in the world. i don't recall ever coming across that saying. also , why are you a former believer , did something turn you away ?

[exile]

"I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my portion of food."

Job 23:12 (E.S.V.)

Yes, I believe that God's Word, the Bible, is divinely inspired when read or spoken aloud in a good translation (not a paraphrase).

Not trying to tell you which version to read, you can figure that out for yourself.

I also believe that to properly understand and accept God's word into our hearts leading to saving faith in Jesus Christ our Lord, we need to have our hearts, our minds and our spirits illuminated by His Holy Spirit in an attitude of repentance and humility so that we can understand what He is saying to us in His word. Only then can we truly be blessed by His gospel message.

Is my heart always in the right place when I read His word? Of course not! That is why I am ever thankful for His blood shed on the cross for my sins, and for yours, if you are willing to accept His offer of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.

Have you accepted Christ into your heart today? If not, I pray that you will do so now. Accept His offer of mercy today.

We are given this moment in time to respond to His voice. None of us are promised tomorrow.

What will your answer be?

Luke 23:43.

exile