Is the word of God absolute????

[abunaitoo]

Seems many churches change their teachings and views according to what is popular.
Many people use their own interpretation of the bible to fit their thinking.
Seems right and wrong now depends on what church you go to.
So, is the word of God absolute????
Or does it change with the times????

[plowboysghost]

Yes..and so is His judgement.

[1hole]

Seems many churches change their teachings and views according to what is popular.
Many people use their own interpretation of the bible to fit their thinking.
Seems right and wrong now depends on what church you go to.

Sadly, you are right.

So, is the word of God absolute????
Or does it change with the times????

The Words of God are nothing less than absolute. In spite of what some church leaders say, God's words and standards of life do not "change with the times". If that were true, even a little bit true, man wouldn't need a Bible at all because what must be true tomorrow could be set by a leadership committee voting to court PC popularity today.

Sin is being taught and practiced today within many once staunch denominations and it's been going on for decades but it's the wide and easy path leading to hell. Scripture tells us we ain't seen nothing yet, seems it's going to accelerate and get much worse as we get closer to the Lord's return.

Bottom line; stick with the Bible, not badly lost "church leaders"!

Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.

[dtknowles]

When you find the proper interpretation of God's words let us know.

If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it.

Tim

[abunaitoo]

"If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it."
I think that nailed it.

[M-Tecs]

Which version of the bible and what about the 14 to 50 books that have been removed?

[LawrenceA]

It is with great trepidation I enter this arena. I hate to say it but this is my opinion and it is considered and reconsidered. I spent years reading and re reading and seeking guidance to reach this point.
If you believe otherwise then that is your prerogative and I support you having a choice. I hope you can support mine.

His word may be absolute. But we do not have his absolute word.
What we have is what others have orally passed down for generations in ancient and forgotten languages and then written down and then re interpreted and then re written and then re interpreted again.
Simple example. The Gospel according to Saint James says it was an apple tree in the garden of Eden. In Italy the tree is often portrayed as a fig tree. The English at the time would not have known what a fig was. In Old English "apple" means fruit.
So it is possible that in the Saint James version (the first Bible for the people not the clergy and learned) they could not say fig and have the masses understand so wrote fruit. Message is the same but the word is different.
Even in English how many words have a double or changed meaning. Once upon a time a ******(rhymes with maggot) was only a bundle of kindling. Today a flintlock has the hammer strike the frizzen, used to be the cock (hammer) struck the hammer(frizzen).

Another example. I cannot remember Chapter and verse but the Bible says Mary was a virgin. Originally this was written in ancient Greek where the word for virgin is the same as young woman.
So this verse actually can say "Mary was a young woman". The interpretation that it means virgin comes from when she spoke to an angel and said "How can I be with child as I have not been with a man?" Message is the same but the words are based on interpretation.
There are differences in the New Testament on who attended the birth of christ. One bible has 3 kings or 3 shepherds depending on the gospel, another 3 magi and 3 shepherds. There is an insurmountable difference between a magi (A type of really smart clergyman from Persia) and a King. If you look at which Gospel then you can see the kings are in the gospel written for the aristocracy and the Shepherds for the common folk. I believe that the words were adjusted to suit the intended audience.
Jesus was crucified between thieves. The Romans did not crucify thieves. Political dissidents and the like were usually crucified, amongst others, but not thieves.

It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle. In ancient times the "eye of the needle" was a small gate in a city wall. A camel could be forced to crawl through. Similar message but not the same intensity.
There are many, many more.

Also if we look at everyday beliefs versus what is written.
When you die you go to heaven. No you don't you have to wait and then just maybe.
There is room for everyone in heaven. No there isn't there is room for 144,000 in heaven being 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. It is a quota system. Well so the word implies.
According to Leviticus (and Deutoronomy to I think) you will go to hell for wearing cloth of mixed fiber or sowing mixed crops. Anyone wear Poly-cotton or have a veggie patch?
Leviticus also has you going to hell for wearing clothes belonging to the other gender. I have potentially cursed my wife to eternal damnation for giving her my coat to wear.

The goal the writer had, was to deliver the correct message.
I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone.

[GhostHawk]

There is a difference between Mankinds word, and HIS word.

Mankind has been messing with religion for thousands of years. And IMO in 90% + cases. do not have it right.

When in doubt, take it to him in prayer. He'll tell you/show you/give you the knowledge you need.

There are some very solid people here that I trust. And I have found one church where I felt at home. Only problem is at 1550 miles away it is a bit of a commute. So mostly when I feel the need I turn to Youtube. Tennessee Ernie Ford is my favorite. When he sings gospel, you can tell he believes.

For everything else, make your mind calm and smooth as a Minnesota lake at 5am, not a wrinkle on the water.
Ask, and then LISTEN.

I do find it seems to help get his attention if I ask out loud. Freaks my wife out a bit but so be it.

I think if the Lord were standing beside me right now he would agree that man has taken his bride. His innocent virginal sweet church, and transformed her into the painted ***** of Babylon. But that is just my opinion, YMMV.

[LawrenceA]

Well said

[dverna]

Cannot add much to what either dtknowles or GhostHawk posted. M-Tecs has a valid point as well.

Look at the United Methodist Church. Torn apart by homosexuality and using the same Bible to justify their positions.

If God's word is absolute...we are able to twist it to fit our "needs". And each position can be argued by referencing scripture. It is a minefield.

I let the Holy Spirit guide me. Do NOT confuse religion or the church with God. Man can NOT be trusted. Religion and churches are guided by men. Trust God to give you divine inspiration...more so than the Bible. He would not need the Holy Ghost if the Bible was all we needed to find Him.

[1hole]

It is with great trepidation I enter this arena.

Welcome aboard! No need to trepidate, no one here is going to attack you. Honest questions and opinions are welcome, it's only the disingenuous "pot stirring" pettiness of some folk that gets laughed at but no one here seems to get angry.

Let me comment on your list, one point at a time:

His word may be absolute. But we do not have his absolute word...... Simple example.:

* The Gospel according to Saint James says it was an apple tree in the garden of Eden. In Italy the tree is often portrayed as a fig tree.

* .. many words have a double or changed meaning. Once upon a time a ******(rhymes with maggot) was only a bundle of kindling.

Mostly true, in effect, BUT they're trivial variations and therefore meaningless to anyone's understanding of the gospel message.

* ...the Bible says Mary was a virgin. Originally this was written in ancient Greek where the word for virgin is the same as young woman.

True for the Greeks perhaps but Matt 1:23 is referring to Isaiah 7:14, check that and you'll see there is no ambiguity about what was meant.

* One bible has 3 kings or 3 shepherds depending on the gospel, another 3 magi and 3 shepherds. There is an insurmountable difference between a magi (A type of really smart clergyman from Persia) and a King.

* The Romans did not crucify thieves. Political dissidents and the like were usually crucified, amongst others, but not thieves.

* It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle. In ancient times the "eye of the needle" was a small gate in a city wall. A camel could be forced to crawl through. Similar message but not the same intensity.
There are many, many more.

Again, no matter what the original was, it's meaningless to us now because no Christian doctrine is affected or changes what the stories are clearly about.

* When you die you go to heaven. No you don't you have to wait and then just maybe.

No, we don't have to wait and there is absolutely no "maybe". At death we immediately go to whichever destination we have chosen for ourselves; heaven or hell is our personal decision, not God's. Hell is simply the default destination for those who die rejecting the gospel. See John 3:17-18 to understand and see that there is no need to wait or wonder about condemnation.

* There is room for everyone in heaven. No there isn't there is room for 144,000 in heaven being 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes. It is a quota system. Well so the word implies.

I don't see that implication at all and there's no lottery involved. What the Bible says is God will select 12,000 Jews from each of the 12 tribes of Abraham who will then go forth as Christ's missionaries to the world. Those who teach that only the 144K go to heaven or just their religion will be in heaven teach wrongly. And, there is nothing to suggest the Jewish 144K will be the only active evangelists at that time.

* According to Leviticus (and Deutoronomy to I think) you will go to hell for wearing cloth of mixed fiber or sowing mixed crops. Anyone wear Poly-cotton or have a veggie patch?

* Leviticus also has you going to hell for wearing clothes belonging to the other gender. I have potentially cursed my wife to eternal damnation for giving her my coat to wear.

Your wife is safe. The ONLY sin that won't be forgiven is ignoring the Holy Spirit's testimony for Jesus to the hearts of all men. God judges the heart of men - and women - based on the light they have been given, not what jacket they have been given.

What you've done here is badly mix the O.T. covenant (Laws of Moses) given to the Jews at that time in with the proper (New Testament) laws for today's Christians; that's a BIG change in understanding salvation! Messiah brought us a New Testament in His blood specifically because the old laws saved no one ... and was never meant to do so. See Matt 26:28 and Luk 22:20.

* The goal the writer had, was to deliver the correct message.

Very true. And, although some word spelling and meanings, the names of some people and some places, etc., have indeed changed over thousands of years, and through many translations, God proves his own hand by protecting his intended message. Through it all, it's a wonder to me that nothing of importance has been changed a bit.

That's not to say some so-called Bible "translations" aren't just evil corruptions; the Jehovah Witnesses' "New Word Translation" leaps to mind. The NWT is not a translation at all, it's just a corruption of the KJV that they devised in the 1940s/50s to give their late "pope" (Charles Russell) something to prop his very wrong teachings on; there's some bad juju in doing that!

Bottom line, the Bible is a big book that was written and copied by hand over a very long time. While we may rightly puzzle over disconnected bits and pieces of Biblical trivia, there is precious little of significance to "interpret"; the important stuff is clear as a bell.

[Blackwater]

Absolute? Of course it is!!! Where would be an appeals court from God's decision??? It doesn't exist, and it's perfect. And His judgment is perfect as well. It's OUR judgment and thinking that fails, not His! Those who think they're supposed to understand and approve of everything God is and does, do NOT know Him very well at all. He is the creator, and we the created. Since when has the created gone beyond the creator???? It's impossible. But some folks will be determined to think whatever crazy thoughts they wish. This is one of the reasons Christ warned us of hubris - excessive, destructive, prideful self elevation above our rightful and apt place in the scheme of things. He gave us a big brain so that we could perceive many things, and work out problems that will always arise on this mortal plain. He did NOT give it to us for us to worship, and stretch beyond its natural limits! God is God, and we are His creations - lesser entities that seem to be very prone to mistakes of all kinds. The worst is probably counting on ourselves and our limited minds, rather than His grace and love and mercy. But I guess everyone has to do something????

[Tenbender]

When you find the proper interpretation of God's words let us know.

If the absolute meaning of the Bible was clear it would be hard to misinterpret it.

Tim

God let's you understand what your capable of. If you could understand it all at one time you would get bored with it. Open your mind and heart and you will see what I'm talking about.

[wv109323]

You can not take worldly viewpoints to prove that world viewpoints are correct and true.
Einstien made some mistakes in his book . In one calculation, he did not include the earths rotation in the flight of a projectile. But to the person with just this book will maintain the calculation is correct.
Now back to the Bible. No two languages are totally interchangeable. There are words in one where there is no exact translation, so it is a "meaning for meaning" type translation. In other words the same idea is conveyed to the reader.
You put your steaks on the barbie and I put mine on the grill. You may head to the outback but I head to the country.
So each word is not critical to portray a meaning.
I ask you to do two things that will help you:
Love the brethern
Love God with all your heart and do not serve idols.

[dtknowles]

……...So each word is not critical to portray a meaning.
I ask you to do two things that will help you:
Love the brethern
Love God with all your heart and do not serve idols.

You vocabulary makes your statements unclear.

Brethren-who are they?

All your heart-how is that?

If you love God with all your heart what have you left to love the brethren.

Tim

[1hole]

???? Say what .... ?

[Hogtamer]

My understanding may be small and I may be linguistically challenged; I have no trouble identifying wolves in sheeps's clothing however, and understand the imperative to put on the whole armor of God every time I venture into this forum.

[Butchman205]

My 2¢...
Years ago at the church we regularly attended and served, there was a push by the single (unwed) pastor to dive deeper and deeper and deeper in the Word...to the point that there was almost a fistfight at a Bible study over the exact and specific meaning of a verse.
When I got the room calmed down, I suggested, “There’s some folks with 2-3 kids that live not a mile down the road, and their house burned down last night...we need to be spending all this effort trying to help them instead of fighting over a SPECIFIC AND EXACT meaning of a vague verse.”
I was told that family is just a bunch of crack-heads, and not worth fooling with.

We left that church not long after that. My wife had grown up there, her great-granddad donated the land and and had some of his sawmills shut down for several weeks to go build the church...so it was very tough for her to leave.

After several visits to other churches, we found one that states their specific goal is to help EVERY single member find their gift, equip them well, and support them in their ministry.

I’m a guy that prefers to spend more effort on helping folks, than fighting over what a vague verse “means”.
Guess what? Folks can tell if you’re in it for you, in it to look like pious know-it-all, or just want to learn more about living a good life and INTENTIONALLY look for someone you can help daily...and thank them for letting you help them, because they’re actually helping you more than you’re helping them.

I jokingly refer to myself as “Butch The Magnificent And Humble”. HAHAHAHA!!!
-This is a joking way of poking fun at the folks that take the utmost pride in being not just good church members...but want to be in charge of everything, and recognized for what all they do. They can have the recognition, I’d rather move on and find someone else to help.

[bangerjim]

The Bible, any version, is man's interpretation of what they think they heard and was done. Over the years many "learned" (!?!?!) men have added to and taken away from what earlier men wrote and said. It is all man's words transcribed by them in what they "knew" was a gift to them from God.

Today, with the many MANY versions of the Bible, you have to make your own decisions. And rely on the conversations you have personally with God in prayer to decide for yourself.

Personally I use only the King James version. Grew up with is and like it. One verse that always chaps my hide is in the Christmas Story where, in these "new revised modern" versions they state, ".....you will find the child laying in a feed trough wrapped in bands of clothing." OMG! How can they murder that classic that way.

Keep the faith, brother, no matter what it is................and were you read it!

banger

ps: as my old departed buddy used to say, "Everybody should have something to believe in. I believe I'll have another beer!"

[Traffer]

If God is absolute, what would that indicate about his word.