Lyman 311316 in M1 Carbine

[usbp379]

115gr .32-20 bullet from Montana Bullet Works (RCBS 57942) Sized .309" Actual weighed weight is right at 125, give or take.

If they feed this should be a nice little Carbine bullet. Pricey but nice.

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/p...2-115gr-fn-gc/


I'll see if I can't get a couple loaded this coming week. Being a flat nose I should be able to seat it out a bit and maintain some case capacity.

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[Newtire]

I've shot a lot of 311316s through numerous M1 carbines over the years. I've batted about 50% on them as to reliable feeding. The ones that didn't feed had a narrow feed ramp with a sharp shoulder right where the bullet comes out of the magazine. That's where the bullets would catch. On the M1 Carbines I could modify (many I shot were Army issue) I simply widened the feed ramp at the front of the magazine removing the sharp corner. I also polished the entire feed ramp. It's easily done with a Dremel tool....just don't get carried away removing the metal. After the modification of the feed ramp the several m1 Carbines I've modified have all fed the 311316 bullets and other bullets (such as 110 Speer Varmiter HPs) reliably.

Thanks Larry, might give this a try.

[Larry Gibson]

Here's the altered, polished feed ramp on my shooter m1.

Attachment 264736

[usbp379]

Here's the altered, polished feed ramp on my shooter m1.

Attachment 264736

GI or commercial?

The Montana Bullet Works bullet shown above shoots pretty well but doesn't feed 100% in my Plainfield Carbine. It seems to work pretty well when the mag is about half full but rounds nose dive a little and get caught on the slight lip at the bottom of the feed ramp as the mag gets closer to full capacity.

On a related note I talked to Veral Smith about a dedicated Carbine bullet. He does have a round nose flat point that he says is designed just for the M1. The flat point is small enough to initially feed from the mag while the rest of the bullet is designed to cam the bullet properly into the chamber at the end of the feed cycle. Being a custom mould, it can be cut for pretty much any weight the shooter might want.

I'm thinking about maybe getting him to make me something that is around 125 grain weight depending on alloy. Maybe with a plain base with the intention of coating the bullets instead of using a gas check.

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[usbp379]

Rob's powder coated option also doesn't feed well although I haven't shot any yet. The dynamics of cycling might change enough in actual use but trying to chamber dummy rounds out of the mag have met with little success.

As with the MBW gas checked bullet, the flat point is too flat. Rounds nose dive and get caught on the lip at the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Those that do feed are deformed by the force of stripping them from the mag and banging them up the ramp and into the chamber.

Maybe my next course of action should be to get some of the cast hollowpoint bullets from GT in an unsized/as cast option. Have them powder coated and sized at .309 and see how it goes from there.

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[Larry Gibson]

GI or commercial?

GI

I'm thinking about maybe getting him to make me something that is around 125 grain weight depending on alloy. Maybe with a plain base with the intention of coating the bullets instead of using a gas check.

Be careful about the weight/length of the bullet. M1 carbines have 18" twists mostly (I've found a couple GI even with 20"). Thus stability can be an issue, especially at lower velocity of PB'd cast bullets.

[usbp379]

Be careful about the weight/length...stability can be an issue, especially at lower velocity of PB'd cast bullets.

Yes. Good point. It might be best to stick closer to 110-115 grain.

On a related note, I shot a commercial cast round nose made by National Bullet Company for quite a few years. Used that bullet to kill a number of rabbits and it always shot well. It was a lubed plain base bullet and weighed something like 130 grains from what I remember. But we're talking about thirtysomething years ago. Weight might have been more in the neighborhood of 120. I simply don't remember.

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[usbp379]

Something somewhat pertinent to the discussion:

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/c...-battle-rifles

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[usbp379]

I wonder about this bullet. Anyone know how it might compare to the LBT bullet I mentioned earlier?

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=31-115C-D.png

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[Outpost75]

^^^^What Larry said!^^^^ Also size .309 for the Ruger revolver.

[Texas by God]

Don't overlook the Lee C309113F for .30 Carbine use. I size
309" and they feed 100% from 5 different mags in my (wife's) Howa. I use the same amount of H110 for it and 110gr JSP.

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[usbp379]

Rob's powder coated option also doesn't feed well although I haven't shot any yet. The dynamics of cycling might change enough in actual use but trying to chamber dummy rounds out of the mag have met with little success.

As with the MBW gas checked bullet, the flat point is too flat. Rounds nose dive and get caught on the lip at the bottom edge of the feed ramp. Those that do feed are deformed by the force of stripping them from the mag and banging them up the ramp and into the chamber.

Maybe my next course of action should be to get some of the cast hollowpoint bullets from GT in an unsized/as cast option. Have them powder coated and sized at .309 and see how it goes from there.

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As a slight update:

I have exchanged a few emails with Rob regarding his FN cast bullet and its feeding issues. He has just purchased the 311410 inspired mold from MP and is sending me 100 bullets cast with the largest hollow point cavity. Weight with the HP cavity is 126ish grains.

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[Newtire]

Let us know how those work for you. I had the Lyman Mould and couldn’t hit anything with it. I had best luck with 311359 followed by Lee 120 gr round nose sized .309”.

[usbp379]

I've received my initial batch of bullets from Rob. These are made with the largest hollowpoint pin in the old and have an average weight of 126 grains. He is using the gas check version of the mold and has powder coated the bullets black. No gas check is installed.

Initial loading so far has been to check cycling and feeding and velocity. 11gr of 2400 would not cycle 100% although anything above this seemed to work fine. I stopped at 12gr which is the max in the Lyman book. Granted a different bullet and coated not lubed.

Anyway, 11.8gr of 2400 is where I'll work from. Velocity is right at 1800 fps here and I noticed no real change by loading with 12.0.

I have now loaded fifteen rounds with 11.8gr and seated bullets to 1.675" with mixed commercial brass and Remington small rifle primers.

The only thing I'm seeing that may be an issue is caused by my Lee seating die. The seater plug makes contact with the bullet just below the hollowpoint opening and deforms the bullet slightly. I have a Dillon seating die and will try it later to see what it does or doesn't do to the bullet. I may have to send a bullet to Lee and ask them to make a seater plug if the Dillon die also deforms the bullet while seating.

In other cast bullet news; I bought 100 powder coated bullets from Bayou Bullets. These are a 115gr round nose. Loaded with 13.5gr of Ramshot Enforcer I'm getting 2,000 fps. Accuracy is mediocre so far. I will probably back the load off half a grain and see what that does.

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[Larry Gibson]

At those velocity levels accuracy will improve using a GC, even on PC'd bullets.

[usbp379]

At those velocity levels accuracy will improve using a GC, even on PC'd bullets.

From what I've read, 311410 usually shoots best at about 1,500 fps.

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[Larry Gibson]

From what I've read, 311410 usually shoots best at about 1,500 fps.

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I tried the 311410 every way from Sunday and found they shot okay around 1500 fps (yes, I had a chronograph back then). The 311410 shot okay if okay is what you want then that's okay........

However, GC cast bullets can be shot with better accuracy than ball and with as good accuracy as with commercial jacketed bullets at the full potential [1850 - 2000 fps] of the 30 Carbine cartridge in an M1 carbine. I shoot cast bullets to my M1s to the potential of the carbine with accuracy which is out to 300 yards. That is the performance I want. Some only plink or shoot to 50, maybe 100 yards maximum so a PB'd cast bullet at 1400 - 1600 fps may do okay for them..... That's fine with me, just a different criteria than I want is all.

[Finster101]

Larry, what is that SWC that you are so fond of in the carbine? I may try and locate some or a mold if I can.

[usbp379]

However, GC cast bullets can be shot with better accuracy than ball and with as good accuracy as with commercial jacketed bullets at the full potential [1850 - 2000 fps] of the 30 Carbine cartridge in an M1 carbine.

Still hoping to find a four cavity 311359. One will turn up eventually.

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[usbp379]

Larry, what is that SWC that you are so fond of in the carbine? I may try and locate some or a mold if I can.

@Larry Gibson

I'd also be curious about a SWC in the Carbine.

With that said, my Plainfield (the Carbine I use/shoot the most because of zero collector value) struggles with anything other than ball or RN SP bullets. The few 32-20 FN bullets I've tried either crash into the feed ramp and fail to feed or manage to somehow bouncr into the chamber with deformation to one side of the bullet.

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