44 cal. #2 Remington rolling block

[ndnchf]

I started a discussion about this rifle in the rimfire forum. But I've put a centerfire breech block in it. I thought it prudent to move over here. That thread is located here:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4-Rimfire-Long

I thought I'd show how I mad a dummy round for the rifle. First off I measured the chamber using telescoping gauges, a micrometer and a digital caliper. Of course, a chamber cast is another option. With the basic chamber dimensions in hand, I looked around for a parent case that I could modify. For the .44 I used a 303 British case.

I knew the case would end up being around an inch long, so measuring the 303, I needed to remove about .015" from the case diameter at the head end. I did this on a lathe. After cutting, some 320 sandpaper smoothed it up.

Next over to the Harbor Freight mini chop saw to cut it close to the length I wanted. Then to the power trimmer to finalize it.

This cartridge uses a heel bullet, but I dont have any 44 heel bullets on hand. So for the purpose of a dummy round, I made a heel bullet on the lathe from a 200gr .44-40 bullet. After expanding the case mouth, I measured the case mouth, then cut the heel to size.

Next I put just the bullet into the chamber until it stopped up against the rifling. Then using the depth rod of a digital caliper, I measured from the base of the bullet to the breech face (which distance equates to the back of the cartridge rim). With these measurements (minus about .010" for clearance), it was a simple math problem to determine the final case length. So it was back to the trimmer one more time.

After deburring, the bullet was seated in the case and test fitted in the rifle. It fit perfectly

This is just a dummy round. I've ordered more parent brass and proper heel bullets from BACO. When they arrive. I'll repeat the process.

Hopefully it wont be too long until I'm ready to take the old boy to the range.

[corbinace]

Very interesting, thank you for sharing the write up.
Accurate has quite a few"heeled" molds if you are interested.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=15

[ndnchf]

Very interesting, thank you for sharing the write up.
Accurate has quite a few"heeled" molds if you are interested.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=15

Yes, I look at their catalog regularly Old West Bullet Molds has some nice ones too.

[ndnchf]

Made good progress today - I made the first cartridge. The centerfire version of this 44 rimfire is essentially .44 S&W American. For this cartridge I used 303 Savage made into 44 Ballard/Wesson XL from BACO. The bullet is a 218gr .44 S&W American from BACO as well. The brass was cut down to .965", then the mouth was expanded to .410" to accept the .411" bullet heel. The brass was quite thick this far down. So I made a .410" mandrel to hold the case in the lathe, then turned the OD at the mouth down to. 440". After test fitting in the chamber, 22gr of Swiss 1-1/2 was drop tubed into the case. Then the bullet was seated, compressing the powder about .050".

According to a couple sources, .44 S&W American can be easily made from .41 magnum brass. I have some coming and will give it a try. My only concern is the undersize rim it has.

It's a pretty mild .44 cartridge. But the #2 rolling block is a pretty small rifle. I'm looking forward to taking it to the range.

[Jedman]

Always love to see Remington no. 2's, they are just the best looking of all rolling blocks to my eye.
No disrespect of your work or idea but I have to wonder why you did not just chamber it to 44 spl.
and use ready made brass and have the choice of all regular 44 boolits ?
Using 303 British brass is alright if you have a bunch and are not paying a lot for it. I have used a lot of 44 spl / 44 mag, 303 Brit, 30/40, 35 Rem for projects and they are all .452- .453 at the case head so I don't see why you would need to turn the brass on a lathe ?
It seems if you wanted to keep the OD of your brass smaller because of the smaller barrel shank diameter you could use trimmed 41 mag / spl brass and a 44 heeled boolit.

Jedman

[tim338]

Where did you get the centerfire breech block? I have a #2 in 32 rimfire I would like to convert over.

[ndnchf]

I enjoy the challenge making them shoot with the original cartridge (although the centerfire equivalent). This is a very early #2. In respect to the metallurgy of the day, I'd be concerned with chambering it to 44 Special. There is no telling what a future owner would do with it. A hot 44 Special could be very dangerous in this rifle with a soft steel barrel. I defer to the side of caution.

[ndnchf]

Where did you get the centerfire breech block? I have a #2 in 32 rimfire I would like to convert over.

I had John Taylor convert another #2 I have in 32 rimfire, to centerfire. I swapped that block into the 44. It fit perfectly.

[ndnchf]

I have some 41 mag brass coming to try. The only possible issue is the small rim it has. I'll have to see if they will extract ok. If so, great. Cases will be much easier to make.

[ndnchf]

Where did you get the centerfire breech block? I have a #2 in 32 rimfire I would like to convert over.

Here is my discussion of the converted 32 XL rimfire #2. I shoot this one a lot.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...xtra-Long-(XL)

[ndnchf]

It's been a busy day in the shop making cases and loading. But I now have 20 loaded rounds ready to go. Hope to get some range time this week.

I made a video that explains my process for making cases. Maybe you'll find it interesting.

https://youtu.be/iVzb4WopeAM

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello ndnchf,

Looks good! But I hate to be an old mother hen, take that ring off while you still have your fingers.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Lostinidaho]

Great video. I am always trying to resurrect firearms in obsolete chamberings. A lathe would be nice.

[ndnchf]

Hello ndnchf,

Looks good! But I hate to be an old mother hen, take that ring off while you still have your fingers.

AntiqueSledMan.

Good point. I usually do, just forgot this time....

[ndnchf]

Great video. I am always trying to resurrect firearms in obsolete chamberings. A lathe would be nice.

It is indeed. I've had this one for over 30 years and made hundreds of things on it, its like an old friend. I don't know what I'd do without it.

[Drm50]

I don’t know finer points of the small RBs. How do you tell a #2 model.

[ndnchf]

I don’t know finer points of the small RBs. How do you tell a #2 model.

The easiest way at a glance is to look at the rear of the action on both sides. It is scalloped or curved where it meets the stock. All others are straight. They are about 2/3rds the size of a #1.

[ndnchf]

The Starline 41 Mag brass arrived yesterday. I cut one down to size and tried it in the chamber - yes, it will work. The rim is a little smaller, but the extractor still grabs it reliably. I made 19 more cases in short order. All I had to do was cut and trim to length - .965". Then anneal, expand the case mouths and load. This is much easier I should have watched Larry Potterfield's video sooner

The expander plug I made is about .407". The BACO heel bullets are about .411" - .412" on the heel. I used a 44 Mag seating die to seat the bullets and it worked well. They are firmly seated. But after the first firing, the cases will expand a bit. I can use the .303 Savage sizer to size them back to where I want them. But I talked to Bernie Rowles (Old West Bullet Molds) last night and ordered a 44 S&W American collet crimp die and a few sample bullets from his 44 S&W American bullet mold to try out. From the photos on his web site, they look nearly identical to the BACO bullet.

I now have 40 rounds loaded and am looking forward to getting to the range for its baptism of fire

[Lostinidaho]

Keep us informed. This has been really interesting follow. It has application to many obsolete cartridges.

[ndnchf]

This was my first time out with the 140+ year old rifle. My goal was to verify proper functionality, collect chronograph data and see if the bullets flew straight. I was successful on all accounts.

After a lot of research, I made up four loads to start, 10 rounds each.

Load #1 was 22.0gr of Swiss 1.5, lightly compressed, my home made black powder lube in the exposed lube groove. 303 Savage brass, WLR primer. This gave an average velocity of 1023fps.

Observations: This shot well, but I had one light hammer strike. Cases extracted easily.

Load #2 was 13.0 gr of Blackhorn 209, lightly compressed, my home made smokeless lube. 303 Savage brass, Fed 215 LR magnum primer. This gave an average velocity of 931fps.

Observations: This shot well, but I had one light hammer strike. I think the LR primers may be a little too hard for this rifle. Cases extracted a little harder.

Load #3 was 16.8gr of Reloader 7, filled to base of the bullet, my home made smokeless lube, .41 Magnum brass, CCI LP primers. This gave an average velocity of 1023fps.

Observations: This shot well, no misfires. Cases extracted easily. The avg. velocity was exactly the same as load #1 with Swiss 1.5. The agrees with what the late John Kort said. That a case full of RL-7 closely duplicates the original black powder loading velocity and pressures in pistol size case. I've had the same experience with .32-20 and .32-Ballard XL.

Load #4 was 5.0gr of Unique, my home made smokeless lube, .41 Magnum brass, CCI LP primers. This gave an average velocity of 807fps.

Observations: This shot very well, but case mouths were not sealing. Potentially the most accurate load.

So overall I'm very pleased with this rifle for the first time out. Its not tack driver. It has the original barrel sights, no tang sight and my aging eyes. But there was no keyholing and it was reasonably accurate with the heel bullets and just fireforming the cases.

The rifle functioned fine and there is real potential here. Bernie Rowels is sending me his .44SWA collet crimp die and sample bullets from his .44 SWA mold. It looks nearly identical to the BACO bullet. I will most likely order this mold after I test his bullets.

More to come as I continue load development.