Silencers for use with lead bullets

[fcvan]

I'm going to expand upon the PC thing. I have been shooting PCd boolits for quite some time after 4 decades of lubed boolits. Love it, stuff is tough, and stuff doesn't stick to it well. Heck, even the frame on my Harley, and the deck on my mower are PCd.

I would think about Powder Coating the internals of the suppressor, taking into account for the tolerances effected by the thickness of the coating, would be a consideration. It takes a lot to remove PC from metal, provided the surface is prepped. Even the vinegar/peroxide won't effect the PC. I'm sure Hoppe's #9 won't bother the stuff. A previous suggestion posted was coating the internals with Alox which made cleanup a breeze.

In any event, I wouldn't own a suppressor that could not be disassembled. Cleaning gas ports on M1As and Mini 14s is a female dog, but is made easier because you have parts you can disassemble. The same can be said for the AR 10/15 platform.

[Cosmic_Charlie]

PC'd bullets still leave a good amount of lead and PC deposits. So do TL'd bullets. 45 ACP Loaded over 5 gr Bullseye.

I looked up slow motion suppressor online and found some high speed camera clips of a subsonic 300 BO leaving a can. Interestingly enough, they captured supersonic particles leaving the can ahead of the bullet. So that would jive with your experience. Those particles settle on the suppressor internals and probably get melted on during subsequent firings.

[reddog81]

PC isn't a cure all for using lead bullets in a suppressor, however the reduced fouling compared to any regular lead lubed bullet is significant. If buying something for use with lead lubed bullets I'd suggest something stainless that can be taken apart and cleaned. If your going to go through the hassle of getting a suppressor it's probably worth it to spend a little extra and get something high quality. But once, cry once...

[fcvan]

Very good point. Also cheaper to get the license to produce your own, can’t sell them or will them, but can make what you want (other details too)

[Elkins45]

Very good point. Also cheaper to get the license to produce your own, can’t sell them or will them, but can make what you want (other details too)

A Form 1 silencer can be passed on to your heirs on a Form 5 no differently that a commercial Form 4 can.

[NoZombies]

Very good point. Also cheaper to get the license to produce your own, can’t sell them or will them, but can make what you want (other details too)

To pick a nit, it's not a license if you file a form 1, it's a registration. If you meant a manufacturer's license, then you have to sell them, as it must be a business to be legal.

A Form 1 silencer can be passed on to your heirs on a Form 5 no differently that a commercial Form 4 can.

It can also be sold just like any other can, with the same restrictions and rules. You paid the making tax and it's all legal and not classified any differently than a can you bought from a dealer or manufacturer. A number of the transferable machine guns in the registry were made on form 1's.

[bpatterson84]

The problem with take down cans is they are heavier than they need to be on the wrong end of your rifle. I’m going to stick with coated bullets and welded cans. I have a few centerfire rifle takedown cans, and it’s just not worth the weight penalty. If I were to go for one however, it would probably be a Liberty mystic X or Cosmic.

[dragon813gt]

vinegar (3% acidity) and store bought hydrogen peroxide - Supposedly hard on steel but stainless is OK. Add DC current and it speeds up reaction. And the resultant liquid is toxic. Just use wisely.

This is the “the dip” and really shouldn’t be used. There is no way to properly dispose of it after use. It’s works extremely well but is highly toxic. Lead acetate is not something you want to touch. Technically you can precipitate the lead out of solution but it’s best to not use this cleaning method.

[bpatterson84]

It can also be sold just like any other can, with the same restrictions and rules. You paid the making tax and it's all legal and not classified any differently than a can you bought from a dealer or manufacturer. A number of the transferable machine guns in the registry were made on form 1's.

To pick a nit, it only needs to transfer to heirs in a form 5 if the form 1 was submitted as an individual which is not necessary. Form 1’s with a trust are being approved in just a lil over a month before this covid stuff, so not much difference, then it would transfer as the rest of the trust would, seamlessly with no need for a form 5.

To pick another nit, manufacture of items for sale under the purview of the NFA 34 and GCA ‘68 without a FFL 07/02 SOT manufacturing license could be construed as dealing without a license and a federal crime. Yes, you can transfer it, but that’s pretty dumb as there would be an additional tax stamp placed on it and I haven’t seen any form 1 cans worth that. I’d make sure it’s not new and I don’t think I’d sell another one for a while. Don’t make items to sell or appear that way. For ALL legal advise, consult an NFA lawyer, not a lead bullet forum.

[NoZombies]

To pick a nit, it only needs to transfer to heirs in a form 5 if the form 1 was submitted as an individual which is not necessary. Form 1’s with a trust are being approved in just a lil over a month before this covid stuff, so not much difference, then it would transfer as the rest of the trust would, seamlessly with no need for a form 5.

To pick another nit, manufacture of items for sale under the purview of the NFA 34 and GCA ‘68 without a FFL 07/02 SOT manufacturing license could be construed as dealing without a license and a federal crime. Yes, you can transfer it, but that’s pretty dumb as there would be an additional tax stamp placed on it and I haven’t seen any form 1 cans worth that. I’d make sure it’s not new and I don’t think I’d sell another one for a while. Don’t make items to sell or appear that way. For ALL legal advise, consult an NFA lawyer, not a lead bullet forum.

My point was that a form 1 can is legally transferable through all of the same legal methods that one made by any 07/02 can be.

As for the manufacturing thing, the feds have said that as long as the tax is paid, they don't care. Buying and selling non-NFA guns they are far more concerned with. As far as NFA stuff goes, as long as all of the legal hoops are jumped through, it doesn't matter. It would be a terrible business model, but the feds wouldn't mess with you as long as your stuff is in order. But I do agree, legal advice from a forum should be followed by due diligence and a discussion with a real lawyer before proceeding.

[root]

Here is a 2 stage Sionics can I shoot nothing but lead through with a Powder springs Ingram M-10 45 ACP
Mine is on the right I bought this can NIB and this was the 1st time it was ever apart.

Over 5000 rounds before I stopped doing the round count.



The one on the left is a SWD 45 ACP two stage that had nothing but FMJ through it.

Note the one on the left is a touch cleaner also has a very low round count.

PC bullets leave a lot of crud behind and build up that straight lead and lube don't or FMJ bullets.

I have 5 other cans two Octanes and a Spectre along with a F1 30 cal SS can.

All my cans are take apart and all my cans are full auto rated. All but the Sionics is SS.

See a pattern?

The one thing I refuse to shoot is the PC bullets due to the flame cutting that causes cans to load up premature with crud on the blast baffle.

And yes I use the "dip" to clean all my cans but the Sionics since it is Aluminum baffles. I just take the jar to work and stick in in the hazmat & chem disposal room for the Biohazard guys to remove.

Happy shooting and be safe or in this case hearing safe.

[303Guy]

Good heavens. So many parts! Ok, one of those parts is a disassembly tool but even so.

I need to build my test suppressor, which is intended to evaluate different baffle designs for effectiveness. Considering what I'm reading here I think I'll build it with throw away internals.

[root]

303guy

Those are old two stage cans for mac 10 45 acp sub machine guns.

Or more properly machine pistols.

I also have 3 swr cans a 22 9mm and 45 acp and a f1 stainless can.

Those old sionics cans are meant for very high volume fates of fire thats why they are so big.

Also while older tech they do have superb sound reduction.

The swr and my f1 xan do not have near the stuff the old sionics do.

What is in the pix is just the 2nd stage guts and both are missing the wipes in the pic.

There are more parts in the 1st stage.

Another thing, the 2nd stage baffels are spirals pretty much a 4 tpi per inch cut with a wide parting blade.

Me and the owner of of the can on the left think they just made long runs on the lathe then parted them to length.

No modern can has the sionics tech.

I bought that can NIB to match my M10 since they were always meant to be paired up and its a real joy to shoot in the OEM setup or with Lage or Flemming upper and other cans.

Rich

[NoZombies]

My sionics can came with a wipeless end cap when I bought it, but otherwise very clean and obviously not used much.

Interesting the different experiences folks have. I found that lubed lead bullets left more hardened caked crap by a fair margin than PC'd bullets for the same number of rounds.

[JimB..]

This is the “the dip” and really shouldn’t be used. There is no way to properly dispose of it after use. It’s works extremely well but is highly toxic. Lead acetate is not something you want to touch. Technically you can precipitate the lead out of solution but it’s best to not use this cleaning method.

You can precipitated the lead, but there are other metals that are more difficult to deal with, so making it safe in this manner is not trivial. However, the solution can be allowed to evaporate and the metallic compounds will not evaporate, so you’ll be left with a dried layer of carbon, lead, antimony, silver, and a few other things. It can then be safely disposed of with your solid waste. I use an old skillet for this, sometimes heating it on the side burner of the grill in the back yard to speed things up so animals don’t get into the toxic solution, and will one day just toss it in the recycling bin.

[dragon813gt]

I brought up not using it because most people aren’t going to go through the trouble to make it inert. They’re going to dump it down the drain or worse yet keep it around in an unlabeled container. It’s highly toxic which everyone needs to be aware of.

[dk17hmr]

Just get a Liberty Cosmic. Easy to take apart and they sound great. I don't know how many cast bullets I have shot through mine but it's alot. Rated for some pretty big rounds also.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve never done much suppressor stuff with handguns I have however done quite a bit with 30 cals both sonic and sub sonic . And I tried a bunch of 200-220 grain cast for sub sonic applications . In all the testing for both cast and jacketed I used the same Yankee Hill suppressor that wasn’t takedown . Never really needed cleaning after about 500 shots . But when we did a half hour in the sonic cleaner and it was good . Oh yeah I’m not an advocate of powder coat bullets so none of those were used .