MP 359-180gr RF rifle issues

[wonderwolf]

I got a mihec 359 180gr RNFP (HP options) a while ago and have run into a issue when using it in my 1:16 twist bolt action rifle (ruger 77 357 mag).

My goal is to get a hunting load for 100 yards developed with this bullet, Subsonic would be awesome but not necessary. So far I've only tested the Hex HP because thats all I've cast with it so far. Anyways I have tested 4.5-5.4 gr of bullseye at 50 yards, Shots great, they all in fact print darn near the same POA/POI and within a 2" circle, individual loads are giving me better than 1MOA at 50 yards. That is until I move to 100 yards. They open up like they have somewhere else to go. I can't get 1 round out of 10 on a paper plate at 100 yards?

Is the HP causing a issue? This is a large Meplat large HP bullet and the hex may be doing something weird I'm guessing since its subsonic its not pushing a wake in front of the bullet, twist calculators show I'm good on speed, I'm not getting any keyholing at either ranges. I have tried some cast solids at 50 but not at 100 (I'm running low, and I can't cast any more right now due to logistics with the lockdowns going on)


It is notable as well to mention the 160gr Type III wadcutter with a big hollow point from NOE does wild things at 100 yards to I'm now realizing.

Any suggested proven accuracy loads for this (359 180gr RF Mihec) bullet to try? Or ideas as to what my issue is? Has this bullet proven accurate in other peoples rifles at 100?

[nockhunter]

What velocity are you at? Try more speed.

Mike

[RickinTN]

I just today received it's little sister, the 165 grain RF. I think I would agree with the above in trying more speed and with a slower powder. I don't know what your velocity goals are, nor do I know what your alloy is but I would probably try 2400 or 4227 to lower the pressure and also increase the speed.
Good Luck,
Rick

PS. This is the first of his molds for me but it won't be the last. The penta points just jump off the pins.

[wonderwolf]

What velocity are you at? Try more speed.

Mike

I just today received it's little sister, the 165 grain RF. I think I would agree with the above in trying more speed and with a slower powder. I don't know what your velocity goals are, nor do I know what your alloy is but I would probably try 2400 or 4227 to lower the pressure and also increase the speed.
Good Luck,
Rick

PS. This is the first of his molds for me but it won't be the last. The penta points just jump off the pins.

Right now I'm at 1100 FPS with 4.7 Gr Bullseye, I have run it up to 5.8 gr bullseye but did not shoot that load at 100 yards, I may try that in the next few days. I would expect to get closer to 1350-1400 FPS with the 5.8 load ( I have not chrono'd that one yet just because of weather and time)

[Michael J. Spangler]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

If I remember correctly these guys tested at 50 yards.
They had some iffy loads at 50 that shot better at 100 and the inverse was also true.
The issue being the lower speeds with most loads causing issues with the Bullet going trans sonic at a given distance.
So something at 1100 at the muzzle might be hitting the trans sonic speeds at around 100 yards.

I would say try more speed.

[wonderwolf]

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

If I remember correctly these guys tested at 50 yards.
They had some iffy loads at 50 that shot better at 100 and the inverse was also true.
The issue being the lower speeds with most loads causing issues with the Bullet going trans sonic at a given distance.
So something at 1100 at the muzzle might be hitting the trans sonic speeds at around 100 yards.

I would say try more speed.

Maybe I dont follow, I'm under the speed of sound now (I'm shooting supressed) so breaking the sound barrier or dropping out of it wouldn't be a issue correct? Or am I not visualizing that correctly? I'll check out the link when I'm off work in a bit.

I will be very unhappy is I find a load that one holes at 100 and cant hit squat at 50 ha! That's just my kind of luck with reloading this week

[wonderwolf]

No velocity goals, just want accuracy. Subsonic for suppression is secondary

[RickinTN]

I think you are probably pushing the pressures a bit much with the higher charges of Bullseye and being hard on your alloy. Unique in a 5.5 to 6 grain charge will probably be about what you want velocity wise and be a little gentler on your alloy.
Good luck, and keep us posted,
Rick

[wonderwolf]

I think you are probably pushing the pressures a bit much with the higher charges of Bullseye and being hard on your alloy. Unique in a 5.5 to 6 grain charge will probably be about what you want velocity wise and be a little gentler on your alloy.
Good luck, and keep us posted,
Rick

I'll look it over in the data I have and give it a try.

[outdoorfan]

I've shot that bullet at ~800 fps (~4 grains Unique) out of a Rossi 92 357 (1-30 twist). 10 shots into ~4" at 100 yards.

[wonderwolf]

I've shot that bullet at ~800 fps (~4 grains Unique) out of a Rossi 92 357 (1-30 twist). 10 shots into ~4" at 100 yards.

That's a impressively slow twist rate

[outdoorfan]

That's a impressively slow twist rate

I agree, which is why I posted it to point out that sometimes these things can be done. I don't understand the ins and outs of it, but it happened, nevertheless. LOL!

[wonderwolf]

Retested with 12.0gr 2400 and the groups tightened right up. The mp 180 hp didn't shoot as well as the 160gr type iii wadcutter hollow point but it was still a respectable 10 shot group. I think I will revisit this with solids with the original subsonic load I was testing and see what those do at 100.

Otherwise the supersonic load did seem to help, the twist calculators show all my loads should be stable but the paper didnt lie....we will see what the solids do with my light load but the 12gr load looks like a keeper

[Schreck5]

Wonderwolf, i, too, have that mold and i have found that in a Henry 1:16 twist, the solids work much better when pushed harder with less pressure using powders like 2400, h110, 291, 4227, etc. 4"/ 100 yds is about all i can get, which i still cosider deer worthy. I do not try to stretch it past 100yds when hunting.

[wonderwolf]

Wonderwolf, i, too, have that mold and i have found that in a Henry 1:16 twist, the solids work much better when pushed harder with less pressure using powders like 2400, h110, 291, 4227, etc. 4"/ 100 yds is about all i can get, which i still cosider deer worthy. I do not try to stretch it past 100yds when hunting.

Are you shooting with irons or do you have glass mounted? I've got a older weaver k2.5 on this carbine now. I think it would do just a touch better with higher magnification however I don't want to get away fro. Practical use if it. I'll get lots more solids cast up next time I am able

[nockhunter]

I kinda like Blue dot for mid-range magnum loads. W231 for the light stuff, Blue dot for the medium stuff, and W296(or 2400) for the top end magnum stuff.

Mike

[gwpercle]

Retested with 12.0gr 2400 and the groups tightened right up. The mp 180 hp didn't shoot as well as the 160gr type iii wadcutter hollow point but it was still a respectable 10 shot group. I think I will revisit this with solids with the original subsonic load I was testing and see what those do at 100.

Otherwise the supersonic load did seem to help, the twist calculators show all my loads should be stable but the paper didnt lie....we will see what the solids do with my light load but the 12gr load looks like a keeper

Is the 160 grain type III wadcutter you refer to the
NOE #360-160-WC PB (360432 ) Al's re creation of Lyman's # 358432 ?
If so it has given outstanding accuracy in all my 38 special / 357 magnum revolvers .
Usually shooting them at 25 yards and a few out to 50 yards .
Wanted a 357 rifle for years and would like to use this boolit...have you tested any in rifle with solid point form for accuracy ? Not looking to shoot at 100 yards , 25-50 is my limit.
But if you have any testing with this boolit , please post results ... I like this design .
Gary

[wonderwolf]

Is the 160 grain type III wadcutter you refer to the
NOE #360-160-WC PB (360432 ) Al's re creation of Lyman's # 358432 ?
If so it has given outstanding accuracy in all my 38 special / 357 magnum revolvers .
Usually shooting them at 25 yards and a few out to 50 yards .
Wanted a 357 rifle for years and would like to use this boolit...have you tested any in rifle with solid point form for accuracy ? Not looking to shoot at 100 yards , 25-50 is my limit.
But if you have any testing with this boolit , please post results ... I like this design .
Gary

That is the mold I am using yes!
The solids i have on hand are from my original lyman mold i have not cast any solids from this exact mold. I have tested them out of the rifle at 50 but not 100, i get pretty good accuracy and they feed well in the bolt action.

It's been a road for sure to find something that shoots accurately, feeds reliably and gives good terminal performance in both my wheel gun and the bolt action.

[Schreck5]

Wonderwolf, i am using iron sights.