M1 Garand Sight Changes

[dale2242]

I shoot 2 loads in my M1.
I have it sighted in for my ball duplication load.
I have developed a very accurate cast bullet but it shoots quite low from my jacketed setting.
I want to know how far my POI will change at 100 yds with 1 click of elevation.
I would like to be able to move back and forth between sight settings with out resighting each time.
Are M1 sights capable of moving back and forth with any repeatability?

[Rich/WIS]

IIRC should be one inch per click.

[Tatume]

You recall correctly.

The match rear sight has a provision for a one-half MOA adjustment by rotating the aperture. Clicks are still one MOA each.

[country gent]

AS stated elevation is 1 Min per click on both the Battle and National match sight. Windage is 1 moa on the battle 1/2 on the National match. Another way to accomplish what you want is to buy a second front sight and cut it down to a 1-2 click zero for 100 yds and the second standard or built up for the cast load. Just change the front sight its one bolt and slide on and off.

[Adam Helmer]

I shoot 2 loads in my M1.
I have it sighted in for my ball duplication load.
I have developed a very accurate cast bullet but it shoots quite low from my jacketed setting.
I want to know how far my POI will change at 100 yds with 1 click of elevation.
I would like to be able to move back and forth between sight settings with out resighting each time.
Are M1 sights capable of moving back and forth with any repeatability?

dale,

Your question is a good one and best resolved by bench time at the range with a spotting scope and a carefully kept "Dope Book." Yes, the M1 sight moves back and forth with repeatability." My Garand "Dope Book" has several chapters, one for each Garand and for each different load.

My ball duplication load is 47.8 grains of IMR 4895 and a 150 JSP spitzer bullet. My Garand cast load is the Lee C312-185-1R boolit, sized .309" ahead of 36 grains of IMR 4895. Both loads have the same POA/POI at 100 yards in 3 of my Garands.

I hope this helps.

Adam

[Gtek]

Sight in your jacket load and loosen elevation screw and set to zero. Count clicks up for Boolit land and look at numbers on knob, just clicks works well also.

[dale2242]

Adam, My cast load is 32 gr 4064 which shoots about 5' low from my jacketed load.
If this load didn`t shoot so well I would try for a load that has the same POI as my jacketed load.
It may come to that as I search for the ideal solution...dale

[Adam Helmer]

Adam, My cast load is 32 gr 4064 which shoots about 5' low from my jacketed load.
If this load didn`t shoot so well I would try for a load that has the same POI as my jacketed load.
It may come to that as I search for the ideal solution...dale

dale,

I am a bit confused: is your cast load 5' feet low at 100 yards, or did you mean 5" (inches) low? If it is 5 inches low, all you need is minimum bench time to confirm 4 or 5 clicks on the Garand rear sight will "dial" between your J load and cast load. Record that click data in your dope book and you are good to go.

Adam

[dale2242]

Senility must be setting. I should have proof read my post.
The cast load shot 5" low at 50 yards not 100 yds.
I shot it yesterday and it took 10 clicks of elevation to put it on at 100 yds.
I was hitting a 8" gong at 100 yds easily.

[Nick Adams]

* * * Another way to accomplish what you want is to buy a second front sight and cut it down to a 1-2 click zero for 100 yds and the second standard or built up for the cast load. Just change the front sight its one bolt and slide on and off.

That's what I would do.

Spare M1 front sights are still readily available. So if my Garand shot cast loads lower than it did with standard jacket M2 ball ammo, I'd first make the gross elevation adjustment by swapping in another front sight that was shortened for dedicated hard-cast shooting.

Then I'd replace it with the standard front sight if I wanted to shoot ball ammo again.

I've file down the front-sight blades on a few M1s that were 'low shooters,' where you had to go up like, 15-clicks of elevation from the base just to be in the black at 100yds.

Once the blade was properly shortened, these rifle needed only 5-6 clicks or so from the base to be 'on' @ 100yds.

[country gent]

I set my service rifles sight to 200 yd zero at 2 clicks up from bottom. Cut the front down to accomplish it ( I also cut down the slide on the rear to where the hood just cleared the body radius. The slide was also tapered on the bottom so it bottomed on the front edge. Then zeroed and front sight cut down. This lowering of the sights gave me a much better cheek weld, especially at longer ranges. From memory my M1As sight settings are 200 yds 2 clicks up, 300 yds 5 clicks up from bottom, 600 yds 16-17 clicks up from bottom. Really didnt make the rifle any more accurate just made it easier to shoot accurately.

The front sights arnt expensive and easy to rework. Setting the sights is one of the little touches that make the rifle easier to shoot well, it improves the cheek weld and position. A simple scribe line down the front sights base on the dovetail allows you to replace the front very closely.

[Adam Helmer]

I set my service rifles sight to 200 yd zero at 2 clicks up from bottom. Cut the front down to accomplish it ( I also cut down the slide on the rear to where the hood just cleared the body radius. The slide was also tapered on the bottom so it bottomed on the front edge. Then zeroed and front sight cut down. This lowering of the sights gave me a much better cheek weld, especially at longer ranges. From memory my M1As sight settings are 200 yds 2 clicks up, 300 yds 5 clicks up from bottom, 600 yds 16-17 clicks up from bottom. Really didnt make the rifle any more accurate just made it easier to shoot accurately.

The front sights arnt expensive and easy to rework. Setting the sights is one of the little touches that make the rifle easier to shoot well, it improves the cheek weld and position. A simple scribe line down the front sights base on the dovetail allows you to replace the front very closely.

country gent,

I have too many Garands to be replacing front sights for whichever loads. My "dope book" is all I need to zero my Garands. I just count the clicks as recorded. For example: One M1 is zeroed as follows; up 12 clicks at 100, up 13 at 200, up 15 at 300 and up 28 at 600.

I am not criticizing your sight replacements. Happily, the M1 sight is so adjustable and far better than many of my other WWII rifle sights.

Be well.

Adam

[country gent]

I dont "change" front sights either. My score books tracked sight settings for a given rifle load wind and range, along with rounds fired in a given rifle. On the match rifle they also included the cheek piece setting butt plate setting and handstops setting. I did cut down my sights on a rifle to get the lowest possible usable zero. Between the Heavy stocks on my M1As and the lower zero I got a much better cheek weld and position. Also with modifying the slide like I did I could run out the .052 aperture and run in the .059 for low light days.

By cutting your front sight down to a 2 clk 200 yd zero you will save 11 clicks of elevation across the range. Not a lot but at 600 + it does help. At 1000 with your 28 click 600 yd zero you will be around 48-50 clicks up close to the upper end. The other advantage gained is more engagement of the slide in the base when extended.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I use a witness mark on my sights

[Nick Adams]

* * *

I did cut down my sights on a rifle to get the lowest possible usable zero. Between the Heavy stocks on my M1As and the lower zero I got a much better cheek weld and position.

Guys who don't do much position or match-type shooting don't get how important a consistent cheekweld is to accurate shooting with an M1 Garand or M1A.

There's a natural tendency for your cheek to raise off the stock to follow your sighting-eye as the rear aperture is raised in height. Consequently, the less 'clicks' needed to move that aperture up to attain your next zero for a given distance (300yds, 500yds, 600yds), the tighter your cheekweld remains on the stock, and you'll shoot more consistent groups. Otherwise you're disturbing your natural point of aim (NPA).

For serious Service Rifle shooting, the 'trick' of reducing the gross elevation adjustments by shortening the front sight has been a known aspect of the game for decades.

If you only occasionally get your M1 out to the range for plinking at 50- or 100yds, it doesn't matter.

By cutting your front sight down to a 2 clk 200 yd zero you will save 11 clicks of elevation across the range. Not a lot but at 600 + it does help. At 1000 with your 28 click 600 yd zero you will be around 48-50 clicks up close to the upper end. The other advantage gained is more engagement of the slide in the base when extended.

Yep.

The less you have to crank up elevation at distance, the better your cheekweld stays on the stock - which in turn keeps intact your NPA. It's the key to good position shooting with the M1/M1A service rifles.

[garandsrus]

I haven’t seen a Garand at a Leg match in quite a few years. I don’t think very many people shoot them in matches other than the Garand match at CMP games. Fun rifles though!