Cannalured Cast bullets

[oley55]

This is a 45cal, 500gr cast bullet pulled from an old US Cartridge 45-70 with copper colored primer. I was surprised to find cannelure marks in the bottom of each lube groove but with no lube present. The pics are "as" pulled.

Any ideas on the casting/forming process for this bullet. Was it born smooth and the grooves created via cannelure and what are they for if not lube?

Attachment 259822Attachment 259827Attachment 259826Attachment 259823

I surely do wish there was a way to correct the post Title after posting. Dang misspelling!!

[44magLeo]

They look like swaged bullets not cast. Swaged bullets come out smooth sided. Then groves are rolled into them.
store bought full wad cutter bullets look like that.
They may have some sort of wax as a lube. Like 22 RF bullets have.
Leo

[FLINTNFIRE]

Round nose bullet looks like lube has probably deteriorated years ago , or were they someones old reloads and no lube ever on them interesting .

[Traffer]

I agree with 44magLeo.
I swage lead bullets. There is no way to get grooves in them except for a cannelure type process of rolling them. The hollow base is also an indication of swaging. Although you can cast a hollow base, it is extremely easy to squish it in by swaging.
There must have been some kind of lube in those. Same problem as today no lube= leading.
By the way, I think cannalure is a legitimate alternate spelling of cannelure.

[oley55]

you would think we would see lube residue of some type, dried/caked flakes or something. But then who knows what was used for lube (animal fat?) back then. Did anyone notice the layer lines in the groves? It's almost like a layer cake or something. Looking at the case head and the plain copper primers, would that be consistent with early brass cartridge reloads? Also that is one beat up bullet, dings and dents within the areas you would think would have been protected by the case.

I have zero knowledge of current 45-70 loadings, but is a 500 grain bullet normal? My shoulder hurts just asking the question.

Note in pic #4 the black pitted areas on the walls. It almost looks like the case was stored for a long period in a leather bandoleer that resulted in severe corrosion. Old ammo sure is fascinating though.

[Shopdog]

Very cool,thanks for sharing.

[charlie b]

Yes, 500gn was one of the loadings for the .45-70. IIRC the Army went to the 350gn at some point because of recoil issues.

The Martini-Henry military cartridge was a .577-450-500 Paper patched 500gn .45cal bullet and it hurt a bit. My father-in-law had one. We each fired it once Steel butt plate left marks.

[smithnframe]

Swaging bullets is not something new!

[Wayne Smith]

Would it be swaged with that off center hole in the bottom?

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, arsenal and commercial 405 and 500 gr bullets for the government loads were most often swaged with the lube grooves rolled (canalured) in. They should have been lubed. Quite possible those are not factory loads as primed cases and the bullets were readily available back then.

[gwpercle]

The swagged boolits had the cannelure rolled into the lube groove in theory to hold more of the thin waxy lubricant . The lube film was like the stuff used on lead 22 LR ammo . I'm sure it needed al the lube it could get on those big projectiles .

[JoeJames]

Odd this came up. I just read something this weekend which stated that the government used a mixture of tallow and beeswax to lube the 45-70 boolits.

[mdi]

Many commercial swaged bullets are dry lubed, not in the traditional "filled groove" type lubing. Those made by the bullet mfgs. today are lubed this way (Speer Hornady, etc.). IIRC; many "factory" rounds were dry or very lightly "surface lubed" rather than filled groove type lubing. Works OK for lower pressure/lower velocity bullets. Example; commercial swaged HBWCs, dry or light waxy lube...