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Thread: When to size

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    When to size

    I dug out an old lyman 452374 that I had purchased years ago that cast to .451 so I shelved it. I have ordered powder and beads from Smoke. I also ordered a lee push through sizer from midway. Midway claims it'll be a couple weeks before I get the sizer. I am not gonna fool with my lube sizer as its full of lube and I still lube for some rounds. This is my first foray into powder coating.

    I whipped up a pile of slugs. Can I powder coat them as soon as I get the powder and size them a couple weeks later? Or is it something that I should do soon after the powdercoating?



    Thanks for your time.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Also the first time that I air cooled. I will not do it again. Run out of room on the bench to fast. Bucket of water is much easier.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy blackpowder man's Avatar
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    I would like to see the answer to your question and add a question to it if that is alright with you Elpatoloco. If you size before coating or size and install gas checks before coating with a push thru die, how do you clean the lube off? What kind of lube would you use? Not trying to hijack, I just have the same question as I begin the pc journey.
    Thanks

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpowder man View Post
    I would like to see the answer to your question and add a question to it if that is alright with you Elpatoloco. If you size before coating or size and install gas checks before coating with a push thru die, how do you clean the lube off? What kind of lube would you use? Not trying to hijack, I just have the same question as I begin the pc journey.
    Thanks
    Sir, anyone is more than welcome to add to any thread of mine. I'd like to hear the answer to your questions as well. I have been casting a number of years, but this is my first foray into powder coating. I have no plans of powder coating anything but 9mm and .45acp at this time, but who knows. If I like it, I may boil out my lube sizer and go with the 45-70 and .480 which are both gas checked.

    Thanks

  5. #5
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    Dieselhorses's Avatar
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    First of all, if they are casting at .451 you may not even have to size, depending on what you're shooting from. Second, I have boxes of .452's for my 45 ACP that's been sitting for months, a few weeks ago I dug out 100 and powder coated. I cast from a Lee .452/230 and I don't size them simply because 99% of them just slide through sizing die with no effort at all. Thirdly, never size a bullet with no lube or powder coat as you'll lead up you die. Surefire way to get an accurate measurement is to slug your barrel. Measure the "groove" (highest) part around bullet.
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body....USMC
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  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselhorses View Post
    First of all, if they are casting at .451 you may not even have to size, depending on what you're shooting from. Second, I have boxes of .452's for my 45 ACP that's been sitting for months, a few weeks ago I dug out 100 and powder coated. I cast from a Lee .452/230 and I don't size them simply because 99% of them just slide through sizing die with no effort at all. Thirdly, never size a bullet with no lube or powder coat as you'll lead up you die. Surefire way to get an accurate measurement is to slug your barrel. Measure the "groove" (highest) part around bullet.
    I need them to be .452.
    This is the reason I shelved the mould 15 years ago.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy blackpowder man's Avatar
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    Elpatoloco, I have been casting for many years too and never had a need for powder coating because lube has always worked just fine. For all my other big bore stuff gas checks and plainbase have always worked very well. I got a 458 socom sometime ago and it’s great with jacketed bullets and heavy subsonic cast, but I’m thinking powder coat might let me shoot some midweight bullets at speeds that will cycle the action and thin the dinosaur herd here in North Georgia. I do have lots of black bears all around my house in all honesty and the big bore option is good.

    With all the ammo disappearing again and some spare time the 5.56 with powder coating might prove to be good as well. Especially since I have an abundance of brass for it.

    Your post made me remember I too have a Lyman .45 mold that drops a 200 swc way too small and maybe powder coating could make it useful. As I recall it was way small. Like .446 or something. Maybe 2 coats of powdercoat?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I size sometimes before PC, and sometimes after (with Smoke's clear). When I size before PC I do it dry (no lube). This gives the best results with PC. This works fine if they are very close to what I want, but can be a little but of a pain in the neck if you are trying to size a lot. I have a 0.358 mold I occasionally try to use with 9 mm. I size down from 0.358 to 0.356 and I sometimes get a little smeared led at the base of the bullets due to the leading. But-- when I dry tumble the bullets hitting each other tends to clean off any smeared lead and they come out fine after powder coat.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  9. #9
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    I PC sometimes after push thru sizing and installing gas checks. I just slosh the boolits around in a little mineral spirits then towel them off. I use axial grease for sizing so the mineral spirits works just fine in cleaning them. I may then resize again after PCing but some times a month or more later will laps and it does not seem to make a difference. I also water cool after cooking.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elpatoloco View Post
    I need them to be .452.
    This is the reason I shelved the mould 15 years ago.
    2 coats of powder coat will probably get you to .452


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    Fast is fine, but accuracy is FINAL!....Wyatt Earp

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I size and seat the GC in the Lee push through die without lube. The GC must scrape off any lead cause there is no build up. Then I powder coat and size again.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master
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    In my experience, a .452" boolit measures .455" to .456" after powder coating.
    You cannot discover new oceans unless you have the courage to lose sight of the shore

  13. #13
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    I find it ads 0.004" too, on average.
    Steve,

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  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Plain/bevel base get push-through sized after coating. I like to do it shortly after (within a day) since they seem softer after coming up to curing temp.

    Gas checks get seated by running through the pass through sizer. Then coated. Then sized again.

    If wanting heat treat, that happens after coating and sizing. Bake in the oven for an hour then quenched.

    2-3 thou is typical extra diameter from one coat of Smoke's PC.
    "There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something."
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  15. #15
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    I agree with 454PB and Minerat about how much PC adds, I guess my sizer is wore out. Also if you powder coat and you're shooting a 700 FPS bullet, no need for a gas check- unless you shooting over 1200 FPS. I've seen this info countless times on here. At any rate Elpatoloco, I know you're anxious to get started! I hope you get your sizer sooner than they said.
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
    Pain, is just weakness leaving the body....USMC
    Fast is fine, but accuracy is FINAL!....Wyatt Earp

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Powder coating does add, as previously mentioned. I find 2.5 to 3 thou. It depends on how much powder is in the container when you shake and bake. I have the 452374 mold also. Mine casts @ 4535, using WW. I use Smoke's Traffic Purple powder, and have sized up to 4 thou, on bullets from other various molds, with no bad results. I have a nice burnished finish on the bullets.

    Pre sizing bullets before powder coating, I believe is an unnecessary step. You should have some sort of lube on them to do this, and getting it off is a PITA. Maybe I am lucky, but I can put gas checks on all my cast rifle bullets after powdercoating, without any real effort. You can get away with some pretty soft alloys, as the powdercoating allows this. My 452374 leaded slightly, sized @ 452, using standard lube, but none at all, using the powdercoat, sized the same. Bores are nice and shiny, after a range session, and cleanup is easy. Just a little carbon on the patches.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
    Plain/bevel base get push-through sized after coating. I like to do it shortly after (within a day) since they seem softer after coming up to curing temp.

    Gas checks get seated by running through the pass through sizer. Then coated. Then sized again.

    If wanting heat treat, that happens after coating and sizing. Bake in the oven for an hour then quenched.

    2-3 thou is typical extra diameter from one coat of Smoke's PC.
    I appreciate all the great information from you fellas. .002/.003 is more than I expected. It is certainly more than needed to make my undersized mould useful to me.

    I chose whatever Blue color that Smoke recommended to me. Said it literally sticks to anything. Also got a pink for the wife.

    I checked this morning and Midway still says "processing" on their website. No worries. They will get to it when they get to it.

    Yall all stay safe during these trying times.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Yep, mine increases dia about the same. I measured some bullets and then added PC and measured again. Measured bore and throat. Then ordered my Accurate mold for the .308 (he allows custom dimensions). Fits perfect.

    One reason I seat the GC first is because of PC on the area where the GC seats. When I did the PC first I noticed that sometimes there was a bare spot on the seating area. Don't know if it made the GC go on off center or not, but, it bugged me. So now I seat the GC first and then add PC.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie b View Post
    Yep, mine increases dia about the same. I measured some bullets and then added PC and measured again. Measured bore and throat. Then ordered my Accurate mold for the .308 (he allows custom dimensions). Fits perfect.

    One reason I seat the GC first is because of PC on the area where the GC seats. When I did the PC first I noticed that sometimes there was a bare spot on the seating area. Don't know if it made the GC go on off center or not, but, it bugged me. So now I seat the GC first and then add PC.
    With a gas Check, and Javelina Lube, I am able to run an accurate mould 400 gr slug well over 1200 fps. Truth be told, I run them to .475 Linebaugh upper end territory. Would powder coat handle this? Or is it a hope and pray deal?

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Easy for powder coat. It is not the PC 'lube' that is the limit, it is the spin rate of the bullets. Some believe that the PC increases the rotational strength of the bullets and allows driving them faster than lubed bullets of the same alloy.

    My .308 has a 1-10 twist so I limit my velocity to 2000fps. I have had ok groups (2") at 2400fps with PC bullets. Some with slower twist barrels have pushed them much higher.

    I don't think you can push them fast enough to 'bother' the powder coat.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check