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Thread: Why no pointed bullet molds ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Why no pointed bullet molds ?

    So I've been looking at various moulds to buy and u was curious ,why isn't there any pointed molds in certain calibers ? Like seems all the .224 molds are semi wad cutters. Why is that ?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Maybe-

    The sharp point would get dinged up in a magazine or with feeding.

    Or, in that cal. and speeds, the lower speed limit for cast rules out enough hunters to not make it profitable to make the molds.
    If they 'worked', and there was a demand for them, it would be supplied.

    If the lion's share of the markets for molds is target shooters, FP & SWCs is where the money is to be made.

    For those that always play the blame game that 'its always about the money':
    That's basically true..... Nobody works for free, at least not for very long.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 04-04-2020 at 06:34 PM.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master corbinace's Avatar
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    Tooling for a point could be problematic maybe.

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    Look at the NOE 225-51-SP-BA5 I have one and it is hard to size using a LAM1 and seat them in cases without leaving a ring around the nose. So sharp they will draw blood if not careful. I haven't had a chance to do any accuracy testing yet just trying to get a load that will cycle my AR everytime with cast.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    I have a couple of .224 molds that are round nose. One is a 55 gr bullet the other is 40 gr.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    My best guess is that tools for making molds is already delicate, and 22 caliber is the worst of the worst. A sharp spritzer is worse yet.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Tooling is not the issue. Unsupported spitzer noses tend to slump and accuracy is the main issue. That being said I have never worked with anything other than spitzer 45 Cal. bullets I tried for 600 and 1,000 yard competition. Never got them to shoot as well as more traditional designs nor has any of competitors I shot with. Also if I remember correctly at the lower velocities spizer bullets are not as beneficial as at higher velocities.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...er)-Lead-molds
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-06-2020 at 04:50 PM.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy Win94ae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    spitzer 45 Cal. bullets I tried for 600 and 1,000 yard competition. Never got them to shoot well nor has anyone else that I am aware of.
    I shoot the Lee 500gr Spitzer, they shoot great.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    There are pointed bullets. They are mostly for bolt actions, single shots and used for long range.

    For semi autos we use bullet hoses that feed reliably and for hunting you want a nose profile that feeds and kills reliably.

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  10. #10
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    My guess is this:
    Several reasons. Spitzer or pointed bullets would accentuate any errors in the mold.
    Lead bullets as opposed to jacketed or solid copper cannot be driven hard or they will slump as M-tecs has pointed out. So they can only be used at slower speeds in which the points do not enhance accuracy ...maybe even detrimental to it.
    I started making spitzer lead bullets with lead swaging equipment but when I realized the slump factor, gave it up.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Win94ae View Post
    I shoot the Lee 500gr Spitzer, they shoot great.
    That is an impressive group. Two questions. How repeatable is it and have you tried it past 200 yards? Past 200 yards traditional or Creedmoor type bullets have performed far better than spitzers for me. Under 200 I fully admit I have not worked with them much if at all. For hunting I tend to go with the largest meplat as possible.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-04-2020 at 08:16 PM.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Mold
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    I have just started with the .224. I promised myself I would never try to cast or even reload such a small caliber. Then I saw what happened to the supply of all things reloadable when the virus started scaring folks. Decided to have a way to supply a black gun if needed. Wish I had remembered my promise to myself. The small caliber makes sizing a real problem. There is not enough lead to support pressure so deformed noses become a real problem. I did find beagles three part story of his adventures in casting for the 223.http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/default.html That helped a lot. But I think the pointed small caliber is just so difficult to prepare that it isn't done. The round nose or semi-pointed nose is problem enough. By the way, thank you beagle for sharing your hard work and experience. Sure did help me.
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  13. #13
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    Use a push through sizer!

    Hi jwlegal,
    I can understand your modifying an older promise about casting/reloading small bullets, but "desperate times...." One thing I might recommend is to use a Lee push through sizer for your little bullets. I cast a .264 "Cruise Missile" (NOE 266-140-FN GC BY2) that doesn't stand up very well to sizing with Lyman or RCBS luber sizer. I went ahead and paid the money to have Lee custom make a push through sizer in .266, and it works wonders not only seating & crimping the gas checks, but sizing as well. Instead of wax based lubes, I now powder coat or Hi-Tek these bullets. Hope this helps.
    Ed

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  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    Lyman has produced many spitzer moulds, I have 2 in 25 cal, 1 in 22 cal and 2 in 30 cal. As noted above though, that shape just does not lend itself well to smaller lead bullets for many reasons. Your much better off to find something with lots of bearing surface and a blunt conical or ogival tip ending in a flat point.

    Even more important are size and speed. The inclination on smaller calibers is to push them too hard, don't. And slug that bore and size accordingly. Especially critical in smaller calibers.

    Chris

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    You're looking for something on the order of the Lyman 225450. Nose was sharp as all get out. Never shot well for me in the .223 or .22 Hornet. Should be able to find one with a little looking./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    When I asked Tom at Accurate:

    “ Can't make a spitzer nose.
    .18" minimum diameter meplat required”

    Something to do with his tooling.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by djryan13 View Post
    When I asked Tom at Accurate:

    “ Can't make a spitzer nose.
    .18" minimum diameter meplat required”

    Something to do with his tooling.
    Tom single points his molds on a lathe. He also will not do molds much under 30 cal due to the method he uses.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."

    – Amber Veal

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Win94ae View Post
    I shoot the Lee 500gr Spitzer, they shoot great.
    There's different types of pointed bullets, in this thread there's several different things going on.

    In the quoted post above, that bullet has an extremely strong pointed bullet design being only 3r which is actually called a round nosed bullet.
    The bullet has a short tangent ogive not the typical long spitzer style secant ogive.

    Bullet slump is real but you'll be hard pressed to see it pushing a pointed bullet only 1500fps. Affects when that 1500fps bullet goes transonic, yes/nose slump no.

    Another lee bullet with a short tangent ogive (2r) and yes it's another round nosed bullet.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Bullets with these types of noses will not have nose slump. 2600fps+
    [IMG][/IMG]

    When you start to get into bullets with the longer unsupported noses like these nose slump will start showing up.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Those bullets pictured above were cast from the same cramer mold, 1 a sp the other a hp which turned the bullet into a fn nosed bullet. I did head to head comparisons with those bullets pictured above using several different powders. The results were always the same, every time I got near the 2500fps mark the sp bullet started to fail (groups started to open up) where the fn'd hp still held the same groups.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    At the end of the day you have to drive a bullet hard enough/fast enough to know if there's any nose slump in that bullets design. If you're keeping them under 1800fps it shouldn't matter.

    There's nothing wrong with using pointed bullets, you'll find the ones that perform the best have 2r/3r ogive's when pushing them 2000fps+.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Bad Ass Wallace's Avatar
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    Have a number of 'spitzer' moulds for 40 and 45 cal

    Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Forrest r you may be correct about it being bullet shape transonic issue verse a bullet slump issue.

    At under 200 yards I never noticed much if any difference but since the BPCR game is played a much longer yardage most of my testing was 200 to a 1,000 yards. All of my comparison testing was done with real black powder and maybe a smokeless kicker for fouling control. That was in the days kickers charges were still allowed. I don't know at what yardage the bullets dropped below 1,125 FPS. I never could get the spitzer to shoot well at distance. Same for most is not all the the BPCR shooters that I am aware of at the time. I believe that is still true today.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."

    – Amber Veal

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check