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Thread: Outside barrel rust removal.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    Outside barrel rust removal.

    I have been having issues with my rifle rusting on the barrel edges. I don't mind patina, but rust on a blued barrel looks bad. I tried re-blueing but the blue doesn't hold for long. Its in the gun rack in my room right beside me and il pick it up short after and it will be rusty.

    Any way to take the rust off and prevent it from happening? Im using cold blue.



  2. #2
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    I just thought about an ultra sonic cleaner for parts? Would it work? For the internal parts... What would I put in it to remove dirt and rust?

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    Boolit Bub stevenjay1's Avatar
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    You can use a course cloth like canvas and cutting oil to remove the rust and not damage the bluing. Then remove the oil using denatured alcohol or acetone. Once the oil is removed use Johnson's floor wax to protect the metal. You can still use the oil afterwards. I've used this protection for years even on my hunting guns when it is wet and raining. Just dry off everything when you get home and I reapply wax when everything is nice and dry. You can also use some of the new Hi-Tech rust preventives, some are excellent...I still use RIG...I have a lot of it. Steve
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    I use bronze wool to remove surface rust. The pits, however, are going to stay with you I'm afraid. After I've worked over the offending areas, I wipe everything down with my RIG RAG. A Rig Rag is a soft cloth impregnated with RIG (found at Brownell's). RIG = Rust Inhibiting Grease. Great product and when kept in a jar w/ a lid, it lasts for a very long time. Get a dollop of RIG and rub it into the cloth ~ bingo, you have a RIG RAG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post
    I just thought about an ultra sonic cleaner for parts? Would it work? For the internal parts... What would I put in it to remove dirt and rust?
    Any chemical rust remover will remove the bluing also. Cold blue is most cosmetic and gives almost zero corrosion protection.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
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    Soak it in Kroil. Pits will stay unless you remove them. I use Renaissance wax on all my cleaned firearms. A little goes along way.

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    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    I used a new rust remover I bought. Unlike Evapo rust it works instantly as mentioned on the label. It removed the blueing also, so I added more cold blue. I read on the bottle and it says to let the blue cure over night with gun oil on it. So thats what im doing. If I wipe it right away with a paper towel it takes 90% of the blue off.

    Would it be better to have the Rust kind of blueing?

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Renaissance wax is the best thing since pockets on a shirt. Wonderful stuff, no rusty guns at my house!
    Phil

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    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
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    Thinking out loud but maybe it's the cold blue formula that's causing the rust since bluing actually is rust ?possible the acids aren't "spent " or being nuteralized completely . Had that happen to a part I made for my dad's gun, used cold blue and kept on rusting even after several heavy coats of oil for nearly 2 weeks .
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RU shooter View Post
    Thinking out loud but maybe it's the cold blue formula that's causing the rust since bluing actually is rust ?possible the acids aren't "spent " or being nuteralized completely . Had that happen to a part I made for my dad's gun, used cold blue and kept on rusting even after several heavy coats of oil for nearly 2 weeks .
    Do then acids get spent after awhile? Im guessing they get trapped in pores and it activates since oil might not have gotten that deep in the metal.

  11. #11
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    50:50 mix of ATF and Acetone. Rub with #3 bronze wool. Let it sit for about 15 minutes wipe clean and oil with Eezox
    Regards
    John

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    Just about every process that goes by the title "bluing" is a rusting process. The theory behind it is that if the surface of the metal is pre-rusted, then new rust will have a difficult time gaining a purchase on the metal. Blue rust is just more eye appealing than red rust. But you'll never get a muzzleloader fan to trade his browned barrel for a blue one. Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder.

    Some processes are better at accomplishing this barrier than others, but the true fact of the matter is that bluing is just about the least effective rust preventative. The minute that a blued surface is scratched or rubbed bare that area is unprotected. Oils and waxes also create a barrier to moisture, which is steel's worst enemy. Most folks prefer bluing because of its great traditional appearance, but as a rust preventer it is a poor choice for some climates and humidity conditions.

    Once rust has occurred, as seen near the muzzle of your rifle, it remains in the bottom of the pits and will continue to corrode. Those suggesting the use of wax as a protectant are offering good advice, as the wax will fill the pits and seal off the rust from the air and moisture.

    Many of the new spray-on chemicals and finishes are much superior to bluing and provide much better wear. Some are even colored to resemble bluing. It is obvious that you have a fine old antique rifle there, and perhaps the idea of coating it with a more or less permanent spray finish is objectionable, but were it me that is probably what I would do. The rifle is well past the condition that collectors of pristine Wichesters look for, and now retains its basic value as a shooter and hunting rifle.

    Just this morning, on another thread here in "Gunsmiting Tips & Tricks" I posted a photo of a Star Mod. B 9mm pistol that I refinished with Brownell's Aluma Hyde II 8 years ago. The pistol sees a lot of use as a carry gun, and the finish has held up well. When I first bought it over the internet it came from the Southern U.S. from a humid climate. The pistol was badly pitted beneath the grips, the grip screws, and upon detail stripping and cleaning it I found that the internal parts were rusty as well. I removed all the rust and gave everything a light coat of oil, but after perhaps a month I found the rust returning to everywhere it had been before. As it was carried in the waistband under a shirt and coat my body heat supplied the humidity. I tried it again, with the same result, and decided that I would have to completely refinish it. I filed and buffed all the pits out of the metal and then used the Aluma Hyde II, following the instructions very closely. The finish has held up well, and no more rust. I also replaced the grip screws with stainless.

    I think, though, that I would probably chose a different product for a rifle. I own, shoot, and tinker with a lot of firearms, and other than the ones I am using at the time I keep many in storage. Some are protected with Trewax brand carnauba paste wax, and I've never had one rust. I use it sparingly, and rub it on metal and wood using my finger and a circular motion to fill pores in both wood and metal. But, if you're in and out of the house with the rifle in rain and snow applying wax alone won't be sufficient protection. You always need to wipe it down with a dry cloth when returning indoors, followed by a light coat of oil. Some oils will dissolve the wax and you'll have sort of a pasty mess, but that wipes off, and then after wiping you can apply a new coating of wax. This doesn't eliminate the necessity to periodically completely disassemble the rifle and clean and oil the internal parts.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Just about every process that goes by the title "bluing" is a rusting process. The theory behind it is that if the surface of the metal is pre-rusted, then new rust will have a difficult time gaining a purchase on the metal. Blue rust is just more eye appealing than red rust. But you'll never get a muzzleloader fan to trade his browned barrel for a blue one. Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder.

    Some processes are better at accomplishing this barrier than others, but the true fact of the matter is that bluing is just about the least effective rust preventative. The minute that a blued surface is scratched or rubbed bare that area is unprotected. Oils and waxes also create a barrier to moisture, which is steel's worst enemy. Most folks prefer bluing because of its great traditional appearance, but as a rust preventer it is a poor choice for some climates and humidity conditions.

    Once rust has occurred, as seen near the muzzle of your rifle, it remains in the bottom of the pits and will continue to corrode. Those suggesting the use of wax as a protectant are offering good advice, as the wax will fill the pits and seal off the rust from the air and moisture.

    Many of the new spray-on chemicals and finishes are much superior to bluing and provide much better wear. Some are even colored to resemble bluing. It is obvious that you have a fine old antique rifle there, and perhaps the idea of coating it with a more or less permanent spray finish is objectionable, but were it me that is probably what I would do. The rifle is well past the condition that collectors of pristine Wichesters look for, and now retains its basic value as a shooter and hunting rifle.

    Just this morning, on another thread here in "Gunsmiting Tips & Tricks" I posted a photo of a Star Mod. B 9mm pistol that I refinished with Brownell's Aluma Hyde II 8 years ago. The pistol sees a lot of use as a carry gun, and the finish has held up well. When I first bought it over the internet it came from the Southern U.S. from a humid climate. The pistol was badly pitted beneath the grips, the grip screws, and upon detail stripping and cleaning it I found that the internal parts were rusty as well. I removed all the rust and gave everything a light coat of oil, but after perhaps a month I found the rust returning to everywhere it had been before. As it was carried in the waistband under a shirt and coat my body heat supplied the humidity. I tried it again, with the same result, and decided that I would have to completely refinish it. I filed and buffed all the pits out of the metal and then used the Aluma Hyde II, following the instructions very closely. The finish has held up well, and no more rust. I also replaced the grip screws with stainless.

    I think, though, that I would probably chose a different product for a rifle. I own, shoot, and tinker with a lot of firearms, and other than the ones I am using at the time I keep many in storage. Some are protected with Trewax brand carnauba paste wax, and I've never had one rust. I use it sparingly, and rub it on metal and wood using my finger and a circular motion to fill pores in both wood and metal. But, if you're in and out of the house with the rifle in rain and snow applying wax alone won't be sufficient protection. You always need to wipe it down with a dry cloth when returning indoors, followed by a light coat of oil. Some oils will dissolve the wax and you'll have sort of a pasty mess, but that wipes off, and then after wiping you can apply a new coating of wax. This doesn't eliminate the necessity to periodically completely disassemble the rifle and clean and oil the internal parts.
    Thanks for the info. I love this rifle and I would hate it to get more damaged. Its my first rifle I ever bought myself. I had alot of offers from multiple people but im not inclined to sell. I dont mind of the rust on the receiver as I can take care of that. There isnt any bluing left. Its the barrel. You have a nice dark black barrel but the edges are all rusty.
    Everyone is telling my to use wax so Il give it a shot. Il see what I can find at a hardware store or car store.

  14. #14
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    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
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    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post

    Everyone is telling my to use wax so Il give it a shot.

    Il see what I can find at a hardware store or car store.

    I've had excellent results using Big Frontier 45 Metal cleaner ( http://www.big45metalcleaner.com/ - $6, direct ), which removes surface rust w/o effecting the bluing.

    I then follow up with wax.

    Do NOT use an automotive wax, as they have a mild abrasive that removes a layer of whatever's finish, in order to achieve a shine.

    Use a GOOD paste wax (like Butchers) and let it dry thoroughly before wiping the dried wax off.

    When I take a firearm hunting, I simply apply the wax, but never remove any - which maintains better protection when un-expected weather occurs.

    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

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    Boolit Master Kev18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    I've had excellent results using Big Frontier 45 Metal cleaner ( http://www.big45metalcleaner.com/ - $6, direct ), which removes surface rust w/o effecting the bluing.

    I then follow up with wax.

    Do NOT use an automotive wax, as they have a mild abrasive that removes a layer of whatever's finish, in order to achieve a shine.

    Use a GOOD paste wax (like Butchers) and let it dry thoroughly before wiping the dried wax off.

    When I take a firearm hunting, I simply apply the wax, but never remove any - which maintains better protection when un-expected weather occurs.

    .
    Looks like the stuff they sell at the dollar store to clean pots and pans. Looks exactly the same.
    Its a steel wool cleaning pad. I can probably get 4-5 for a couple bucks.
    https://www.amazon.ca/Stainless-Scru.../dp/B07CTHPJYK

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post
    Looks like the stuff they sell at the dollar store to clean pots and pans. Looks exactly the same.
    Its a steel wool cleaning pad. I can probably get 4-5 for a couple bucks.
    https://www.amazon.ca/Stainless-Scru.../dp/B07CTHPJYK
    That will most likely remove the remaining bluing. Fine copper, brass or standard 4/0 steel wool will work.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
    – Amber Veal

    "The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
    - Wayne Dyer

  18. #18
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    I have used R.I.G. for 50 years never had a gun rust stuff works does not mess up your bluing.

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    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev18 View Post
    Looks like the stuff they sell at the dollar store to clean pots and pans. Looks exactly the same.
    Its a steel wool cleaning pad. I can probably get 4-5 for a couple bucks.
    https://www.amazon.ca/Stainless-Scru.../dp/B07CTHPJYK
    Your gun, your decision...…

    It may look like ( actually, IMO it doesn't ) steel wool, but it isn't - and, steel wool (even oiled) will surely leave scratches in the bluing.

    At a cost of $6 (shipped direct) for a 3-pack for the Big Frontier 45, your dollar store purchase will make your gun look worse than it does now.


    .
    Last edited by pietro; 04-04-2020 at 08:44 PM.
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

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    It's ironic because today I was refurbishing the top of my old Craftsman table saw. Hadn't used in while and was trying to get thin coat of rust off. Started with 1200 grit sandpaper-no dice. Long story short, I wonder if that "Renaissance wax" would work? I used that "Mother's" metal cleaner, seemed to do ok, surface is back dark and not red.
    The unexamined life is not worth living....Socrates
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