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Thread: 7,5x55 SWISS K-31

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Smile 7,5x55 SWISS K-31

    Hello everyone, sorry for my bad english.
    I write from Italy and in my country there is no possibility to choose the powder you want!
    I have some IMR 800-X powder and I would like to use it to recharge the 7,5x55 Schmidt Rubin K-31 with Lee bullets 160 gr g.c. MOLD DC CTL312-160-2R / https://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-tl312-160-2r.html
    which I can calibrate to .309 (LEE 90038 that I use for 30 Luger)
    In the Burn-Rate Charts I read that the 800-X is a little more lively than the Alliant 2400 which is recommended in the starting dose of gr. 16.
    I'd like to know:
    1) - can I use this type of mold (being the TL type it is very suitable for lubrication with ALOX)?
    2) - Can I use the .309 sizer or should I be the .308 sizer?
    3) - What weight of 800-X powder can I use?

    I also have NORMA 203 (NO NORMA 203-B)
    What doses can I use with Hornaday Match 30 cal. .308 168 gr BTHP # 305016? Norma recommends the 203-B gr. 43-46.3 for Sierra MK168gr.
    For the old NORMA 203 (NO 203-B!) I read a dose of gr. 40.5. What do you think?
    I can use the OLD NORMA 203 also for the Lee 160 gr g.c. MOLD DC CTL312-160-2R /? In what doses?

    Thanks

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Czech_too's Avatar
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    Not having loaded a 160 gr. cast bullet for the K31, only a 180 gr., the only comments that I can make here are -
    (1) size to .309, that is what I use for the K31
    (2) there is nothing wrong with your english
    Cruffler

    genealogy, another area of interest

    feedback - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...9613-czech_too

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    If you can chamber ammo loaded with unsized bullets, I would not size them. If they will not chamber, then use the .309 sizer. Bigger is almost always better. Be careful with your 800X powder charge as it is much more energetic than 3400. I would make a starting load of no more than 6 grains and work up carefully until you reach the desired performance.

    Your English is fine; much better than my Italian.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    frkelly74's Avatar
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    My gut feeling about 800X is that it is in the burn rate near Unique or Herco, This is without actually looking it up, but you will want to be very cautious about how much you use and also which data you use. K31 rifles are extremely fine rifles but do have a learning curve. When I first got mine I loaded up some of the 147 gr pulled Military bullets and had to play with the overall length to get chambering. Mine had a really short lead. I found That if you forced the round into the chamber and then tried to extract it again unfired the bullet would pull and dump the powder into the magazine. So making a few dummy rounds may serve you well, to get rounds that will chamber correctly. Be safe, be cautious.... Have fun!
    Quis Quis Quis, Quis Liberat Canes

    /////////BREAKING NEWS////////////
    Millions and millions of American shooters and sportsmen got up, went to work, contributed to society in useful and meaningful ways all over the nation and shot no one today! How do they controll themselves?? Experts Baffled....


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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master
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    http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/loaddata.html
    Look at the 165gr load using N203.
    Sorry, data for 800-x is coming up blank
    Regards
    John

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    thanks! You are many kinds!
    however I am mainly interested in the data for cast bulletts! I knew those data of the old Norm 203, but they are for jacketed!
    IMR 800-X has a LITTLE MAJOR burn rate of the Alliant 2040: it is very similar / equal to VV N3N37, N350, Accurate n 5, and Blue dot, but I have not found any data for these powders!
    Is there anyone who started with gr, 13/14 of 800-X?
    Using very low doses can sometimes be more dangerous than using higher doses!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


    frkelly74's Avatar
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    Okay, so I looked up the burn rate for 800X and according to the chart I found, and you can find it too, google is very helpful, 800x falls between Herco and SR 4756 in burn rate, Both of these are a far cry from 2400 in burn rate. For myself I might split the difference between Data I can look up for Herco and SR 4756. Also strictly for myself I might look at 308 Win data and stay with the starting loads for cast bullets. I do not want to name numbers but recommend looking up data for yourself and only load what you feel comfortable with. But Having said all that, I feel you may be on the right path. Be cautious, be safe .... have fun.
    Quis Quis Quis, Quis Liberat Canes

    /////////BREAKING NEWS////////////
    Millions and millions of American shooters and sportsmen got up, went to work, contributed to society in useful and meaningful ways all over the nation and shot no one today! How do they controll themselves?? Experts Baffled....


    I LIKE IKE

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Your English is fine; much better than my Italian.[/QUOTE]

    My computer traslator thanks you for the compliments

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    airone46,

    You got good advice that I will not repeat. I would be interested in hearing about the laws and regulations you as a gun owner and reloader must comply with in Italy. Please feel free to elaborate and include such information as the availability to locate and use gun ranges, gun licenses, gun registrations, gun storage rules, etc.

    We in the USA are restricted in various degrees depending on which state we call home.
    I like to know what other honest gun owners must endure. Thank You.

    Adam

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Beware the short throat as stated. Seat the bullets deep to avoid trouble. Look at a GP11 round to see what works. Mine worked great with Hornady 150gr spire points with their sharp taper. I sized the C309150F Lee to .309" for mine and it shot ok, but had to be seated deep because of that short ball seat/ throat/ leade.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Here is an old thread on military calibers with 800x... might give direction

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-06-and-others

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Grazie !!!
    Arms and ammunition law is very restrictive! The import of powders must be approved and this takes many years. Just change something in the composition or in the simple package that must be repeated all over again! for this reason very few powders are imported.
    A maximum of 5 kg of powder can be kept, and this quantity also includes the powder contained in the cartridges!
    A maximum of 1,500 hunting cartridges (which must be reported to the police) and 200 cartridges per gun can be kept!
    You can hold 3 common weapons (rifles or pistols: a rifle 22 LR is a common weapon because we cannot use this caliber for hunting!!!!), 6 sporting rifles (there is a catalog or classification that establishes which are the sporting and common weapons), while the number of hunting weapons is free! If you want to hold more weapons than have your collection license released, but you can't hold the ammunition and you can't get it out of the house! (just for testing and with a maximum of 60 cartridges!). At home you must have anti-theft, railings on the windows, safe!
    In short, the desire to have weapons passes! And if a thief or murderer enters your house, you can't even defend yourself!

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    dang... at least you have better food and coffee in Italy. I recall during a visit there was a court case of a guy who defended his family from some crooks from Serbia or someplace over there. He went to jail from what I remember. Good luck with you x55 loading. I was planning to make some rounds for the first time myself this week.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    tomme boy's Avatar
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    10-12gr should be fine with that lead bullet. Just make sure you have a gas check installed. That powder is a little slower than unique and 10-12gr of unique is fine in all the large military cases.

    If you are using ALOX for lube, swab a lite coating in the barrel before you shoot. It will help to get your barrel where it needs to be shooting alox.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy fa38's Avatar
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    I have only loaded 2400 in my P serial numbered K31 with RCBS 165 Sil bullet. The bullet comes out of the mould at .3095 and I run it and the gas check through a .311 sizing die. Only the gas check gets sized and it works very well in my rifle. No problems in chambering the round with that .311 gas check on the bullet.
    I have used 800 x in other rifles and handguns several years ago. It is one of the worst powders to run through a powder measure that I have ever used. I finally used a scale to load with this powder as the weight variation is really bad with 800x. I don’t use 800-X anymore.
    I think I used a start load of about 8 grains in my Rem 03-A3 and worked up from there. This was probably 15 years ago and the accuracy was not any better than other powders. I do not have my notes anymore because when the powder was used up I had no intention of getting any more.

    Here is a url for 800-X. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...0X-does-it-all
    Last edited by fa38; 04-05-2020 at 10:05 PM.
    M. Stenback

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Looks like you are getting some good advice above. I took a look at your cartridge with QuickLoad. Since I do not know the condition of your rifle, I can not recommend these loads. However the following is information from Quick.

    For the 168 grain BTHP, a starting load of 40.0 grains of the Norma 203 (old powder) will give you about 2,200 fps at a chamber pressure of about 26,900 psi. A load of 45.0 grains of the Norma 203 (old powder) will give you about 2,460 fps at a chamber pressure of about 36,400 psi. A load of 50.0 grains of the Norma 203 (old powder) will give you about 2,710 fps at a chamber pressure of about 49,300 psi. The SAAMI is 55,114 psi.

    For the Lee 312 160-2R and Norma 203 (old powder). A starting load of 30.0 grains of the Norma 203 (old powder) will give you about 1,500 fps at a chamber pressure of about 8,920 psi. A load of 35.0 grains of the Norma 203 (old powder) will give you about 1,766 fps at a chamber pressure of about 13,000 psi. A load of 40.0 grains of the Norma 203 (old powder) will give you about 2,073 fps at a chamber pressure of about 18,550 psi. The SAAMI is 55,114 psi. It will take at least 20 grains to reach 1,000 fps. I suggest you not use the Norma 203 for cast loads. The powder to case capacity ratio is very low and this can create dangerous situations unless case fillers are used. Suggest you stay away from the Norma and cast boolits at low velocities.

    For the Lee 312 160-2R and IMR 800X powder. A starting load of 8.0 grains will give you about 1,230 fps at a chamber pressure of about 8,000 psi. A load of 9.0 grains will give you about 1,325 fps at a chamber pressure of about 9,600 psi. A load of 11 grains will give you about 1,495 fps at a chamber pressure of about 13,350 psi. The SAAMI is 55,114 psi. QL data for IMR 800X was not available. Data for Alliant Power Pistol was used instead. The PP burn rate is almost identical to 800X. Start load development at 8 grains of 800x and work up.

    Stay safe .
    Last edited by Pirate69; 04-05-2020 at 08:50 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks, you are all very kind and very experienced!
    Unfortunately in Italy the forums are made only to fight! Everything is discussed except weapons and reloading! I asked the same question that I asked in this forum, and I didn't even get an answer! But if I express very politely my personal opinion that is inconsistent with that of a moderator I receive many insults or even the ban!

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate69 View Post
    Looks like you are getting some good advice above. I took a look at your cartridge with QuickLoad. Since I do not know the condition of your rifle, I can not recommend these loads. However the following is information from Quick.
    .
    My K-31 it is a very very beautiful condition: it looks new! It is strictly monomatricola (english ??? all parts have the same serial number)!

    Last edited by airone46; 04-06-2020 at 06:30 AM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by airone46 View Post
    My K-31 it is a very very beautiful condition: it looks new! It is strictly monomatricola (english ??? all parts have the same serial number)!


    Yes, a very beautiful rifle. What part of Italy do you live?

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm from Catania. Exactly I live near Acicastello. It is one of the most beautiful marine areas in Sicily, which also includes Acitrezza, CapoMulini and other small towns on the hills that are on the coast.
    Acicastello has a beautiful castle overlooking the sea, Acitrezza is famous for its beautiful litle litle island and the Faraglioni (it is said that the Cyclops Polyphemus, after being blinded by Ulysses, threw the tops of some hills against him, detaching them from the earth : so the Faraglioni were born!)
    Before this Coronavirus epidemic, I walked almost every day from my home to Acicastello (go and return Km 7), to do some gymnastics (today I am 74 years old !!!)




    Last edited by airone46; 04-08-2020 at 02:51 AM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check