Anyone playing with .44 Rimfire Long?

[ndnchf]

My mistake on bullet weight. I was thinking 245-265gr. But that is for the Extra Long. The Long runs in the 218-225gr range. So that NEI bullet is right on. Does NEI stall make that mold?

[NoZombies]

My mistake on bullet weight. I was thinking 245-265gr. But that is for the Extra Long. The Long runs in the 218-225gr range. So that NEI bullet is right on. Does NEI stall make that mold?

I'm afraid NEI no longer makes any Molds. When Walt was around, his molds were amazing, when his S-I-L took over things went downhill, and then a few years ago they closed the doors entirely.

[ndnchf]

Ok, too bad. Old West Molds and Accurate molds are other options too.

[ndnchf]

My .44 rimfire #2 rolling block should arrive on Monday. I've been chompin' at the bit. Going on the assumption that it is .44 long, I made up a dummy round. The case length from a couple sources is 1.094". I had a few .44 mag cases on hand - neck, head and rim are all close or a little under, so that's good. I trimmed the case to 1.094".

I didnt have any suitable bullets. So I rummaged around and found a Lee .452-255 mold for 45 Colt. So I cast about 75 of them today. Then I chucked a few in the lathe and turned a heel. I made three sizes: .425", 428", .430". These bullets weigh 255gr, a bit heavy for the .44 Long. From what I've found, original bullets weighed 215 - 230gr. So these may not chamber all the way. I may need to shorten the case a bit more. But this gives me a starting point. I see Bernie at Old West Bullet Mold lists what appears to be a suitable mold. I may end up getting one of those.

[NoZombies]

My .44 rimfire #2 rolling block should arrive on Monday. I've been chompin' at the bit. Going on the assumption that it is .44 long, I made up a dummy round. The case length from a couple sources is 1.094". I had a few .44 mag cases on hand - neck, head and rim are all close or a little under, so that's good. I trimmed the case to 1.094".

I didnt have any suitable bullets. So I rummaged around and found a Lee .452-255 mold for 45 Colt. So I cast about 75 of them today. Then I chucked a few in the lathe and turned a heel. I made three sizes: .425", 428", .430". These bullets weigh 255gr, a bit heavy for the .44 Long. From what I've found, original bullets weighed 215 - 230gr. So these may not chamber all the way. I may need to shorten the case a bit more. But this gives me a starting point. I see Bernie at Old West Bullet Mold lists what appears to be a suitable mold. I may end up getting one of those.

Looks good, I look forward to hearing how it goes!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello ndnchf,

The case length will not really matter with a heeled bullet, the full diameter bullet will not have to make the jump.
I'd be more concerned about OAL, if to long you will have to force the bullet into the rifling.
Also, I hope you are wearing a face mask while turning lead bullets.
Looks very nice though. Here is my 44 Colt with LEE 450-200-1R with swaged heel.

AntiqueSledMan.

[ndnchf]

Yes, OAL is the determining factor. That can be adjusted by the case length. That's a good looking cartridge and bullet. Are you using Bernie's collet crimp die to swage the heel and crimp the case? That bullet look to be better suited than mine. I may just have to get one of those molds and try it. Thanks.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello ndnchf,

I crimp with a home modified LEE Factory Crimp die. I used a 44-40 FCD, removed the collet, cut 1/4" off the die body, made a new collet to fit my 44 Colt case. I don't know what Bernie uses, but I did make a chart listing which cartridges use what Die Body & Collet. I think the 44 Long at 1.094" could be crimped with my Collet at 1.100", but the Extra Short Die Body (used on 218 Bee through the 45 Colt) will need to be shortened by 1/4". But there was no way I could have cut .2" off the 44-40 Collet and still make it usable.

AntiqueSledMan.

[ndnchf]

Hello ndnchf,

I crimp with a home modified LEE Factory Crimp die. I used a 44-40 FCD, removed the collet, cut 1/4" off the die body, made a new collet to fit my 44 Colt case. I don't know what Bernie uses, but I did make a chart listing which cartridges use what Die Body & Collet. I think the 44 Long at 1.094" could be crimped with my Collet at 1.100", but the Extra Short Die Body (used on 218 Bee through the 45 Colt) will need to be shortened by 1/4". But there was no way I could have cut .2" off the 44-40 Collet and still make it usable.


AntiqueSledMan.

Very nice work!
Bernie makes his from Lee FCDs too. I have a couple of them. The one I use the most is for .32 Colt/Rimfire. I made additional spacers to use it for 32 XL as well. He makes them for a variety of cartridges, including 44s. I
ll likely go that route after I determine the length I need.

https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop...t%2Fcrimp-dies

[ndnchf]

The #2 RRB I just bought arrived. It appears to be a very early one, maybe mid 1870s? It is simply marked "44". The bore has a little pitting ahead of the chamber, but beyond that area it is smooth, shiny and has nice sharp rifling. I'm a shooter, not so much a collector (well sorta ). I need to slug the bore and measure the chamber to see what I can use to make cases from. I had made a 1.094" long 44 long centerfire case from a sized and trimmed .44 mag case. It wouldn't even enter the chamber. It must be something a little smaller. Time for more research.

This is the start of another adventure. Here are some pics. More to follow.

[Reverend Al]

Hello ndnchf,

Here is a chart of .44 RF Dimensions, copied from COTW.
I did swage a heel on the LEE 44-200-1R bullet, for my .44 Colt Original.

AntiqueSledMan.

It pays to slug the barrel to check dimensions since these old guns vary so much. My 2 Ballards in .44RF both measure .440" so I went with an Old West heeled mould that is .440"x.418".

[ndnchf]

It pays to slug the barrel to check dimensions since these old guns vary so much. My 2 Ballards in .44RF both measure .440" so I went with an Old West heeled mould that is .440"x.418".

What brass did you use? That may be what mine is. I did a quick and dirty chamber measurement using a telescoping gauge, mic and caliper. The chamber is approximately .445" at the head, .442" at the neck and 1.250" long. groove size is .430"-.431".

[Reverend Al]

Shortened and re-formed .44 Mag or .44 Special brass. One rifle will chamber them shortened only, and the other needs them reduced slightly at the base ahead of the rim.

[ndnchf]

Ok thanks. This chamber is smaller. 44 mag brass wont even begin to go in. I'll need to find something smaller.

[Traffer]

I am saving this thread. When I get my lathe fixed and a couple other projects done, I will make some swaged, powder coated heeled bullets for this thing.

[ndnchf]

I took a 303 British case and put it in the lathe and turned the head area down to .440", then cut it to 44 rimfire long length of 1.094". It chambers well. So that's a start.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello ndnchf,

Sounds like the .44 Ballard Long CF, not sure if the .44 Ballard Long RF has the same dimensions.
Specs on the .44 Ballard Long CF, Rim Dia. .506", Base Dia. .441", Neck Dia. .440", Case Len. 1.09", Bullet Dia. .439".
Specs on .44 S&W American, Rim Dia. .500", Base Dia. .440", Neck Dia. .440", Case Len. .88", Bullet Dia. .440".
Larry Potterfield used the 41 Mag case for his Revolver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWXz3GR6seo

AntiqueSledMan.

[ndnchf]

Thanks. I was just looking at Buffalo Arms brass for both of those cartridges. The 44 Ballard/Wesson XL brass they sell is made from 303 Savage. That looks to be just about perfect. Although a .439" bullet would be a bit large for my .431" groove size. But then again, I could be off. It has 5 groove rifling, so Its difficult to measure the grooves accurately. I'll look closer at it later today.

[AntiqueSledMan]

ndnchf,

I did read online that the 44 Ballard Long CF was the center fire version of the Ballard RF Long, for what that's worth.
Your going the right direction, measure what you have & go from there.
Still interested in your project, bringing something back to life.
Did you ever think of converting to Center Fire?

AntiqueSledMan.

[ndnchf]

I went back and remeasured my slug. I wrapped .003" shim stock around the slug, measured it, then subtracted .006" It came out at .430" Definitely a smaller bullet than the references say. But this could be good. I might be able to use a 44-40 or 44 mag bullet. Hmmm.... Yes, definitely thinking centerfire. First I'll try swapping in a centerfire block from one of my other #2 rolling blocks. Plan B would be to convert this block to centerfire.