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Thread: usable handgun range

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PositiveCaster View Post
    How about a reality check. In the past ten years there have been ten fatal black bear attacks in NA. All but two were in Canada or Alaska. Any attack by a black bear is extremely rare. https://abcnews.go.com/US/black-bear...ry?id=65413852

    But they do happen. I’ve been charged twice by brownies - both were false charges, but they included the obligatory popping of teeth, growling and posturing. No attacks, both left the scene. Two friends were actually attacked, both survived with injuries but their .44 and .454 revolvers did not prevent nor stop the attacks.

    It is fine to be prepared and I would never suggest that a bear attack is impossible - but there is far more fear than substance. Everyone has an opinion on a firearm - especially those who have never seen an aggressive bear in the field - but even the .458 which a friend carried had no guarantee...


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    but a lot of people go handgun hunting for bear with 357, 44, and 45 caliber handguns. SO its something to be figured into things. Sure walking through the woods and getting jumped is a lot different then deciding to go AFTER the animal in question.

    Have read that a 4" barrel on a 44 magnum using 240 grain bullet at 1200fps is a 75 yard elk gun. yet many people would tell me that a 18" .308 with 150 grain nosler partition is marginal at 75 yards. Who do I believe?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikonuser View Post
    weight of the 7 shot would be pretty much close to the 44 special version.

    lipseyes 5" barrel 44spcl weighs 38 ounces while standard 3" barrel weighs ,

    standard 6 shot 6" in .357 weighs 45 ounces. 3" 6 shot weighs 36ounces empty 5" weighs 43 ounces



    Taurus model 66 7 shot 357 with 6" barrel is 40 ounces 4" barrel is 38 ounces 44 tracker with 4" barrel is 35 ounces

    yes, either way there will be recoil. that's expected.

    the old beartooth bullet data shows that the meplat is what counts as far as tissue damage goes, a 158 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps will do the same damage as a 44 mag 300 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps but the thinner diameter makes it more prone to deflection..

    Its why im trying to get this figured out finally.
    In my opinion, this is splitting hairs. A flat nose bullet is fantastically good at penetration, especially in a straight line. Since you already own the 357, there is no reason to change. Of course if you want a new gun, get a new gun. Recoil will not be bad in either one.

    Also, while concerning, bear snapping jaws is them showing fear, not aggression.

  3. #23
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    The preferred backup gun with the bear hunters I know in Michigan is the 10mm. Most bears are 200-300 lbs...largest 500 lbs. These guys run bears with dogs. Bears are shot at close range in trees or on the ground with rifles or shotguns. Pistols are for backup only.

    Three guys hurt in last two years while pulling off dogs during training. Bear has never attacked if it can get away. YMMV
    Don Verna


  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    The preferred backup gun with the bear hunters I know in Michigan is the 10mm. Most bears are 200-300 lbs...largest 500 lbs. These guys run bears with dogs. Bears are shot at close range in trees or on the ground with rifles or shotguns. Pistols are for backup only.

    Three guys hurt in last two years while pulling off dogs during training. Bear has never attacked if it can get away. YMMV
    I think a that qualifies as a cornered animal, anything is dangerous in that situation. 10mm is the ballistic twin to 357 magnum.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    The preferred backup gun with the bear hunters I know in Michigan is the 10mm. Most bears are 200-300 lbs...largest 500 lbs. These guys run bears with dogs. Bears are shot at close range in trees or on the ground with rifles or shotguns. Pistols are for backup only.

    Three guys hurt in last two years while pulling off dogs during training. Bear has never attacked if it can get away. YMMV
    Only know two bear hunters here in Michigan. The 60 year old uses a 12 ga. The 83 year old uses a crossbow, carries a victory model loaded with 38/200 ammo, and a grandson with a .300 win mag

  6. #26
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    Black bears are considered very aggressive by those who live where there are both black and brown(grizzly are brown bear) bears. I was first told of this on a fly fishing trip to Libby, MT, and it was repeated to us everywhere NW from Glacier Park to Alaska (where black bear are never trusted). Black bear aren't the top predator even in northern MN (that belongs to wolf packs), but when they compete with much bigger bear for food, they seem to hold a grudge according to those who live among them.

  7. #27
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    I don't trust wolves that much, but we have had one confirmed attack in our history. Black bears are an even smaller risk than that. All I'm saying is take precautions, but keep in mind the risk of a black bear intentionally attacking you is practically nil. Now deer, I've had a few of them look at me squirrely.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by nikonuser View Post
    weight of the 7 shot would be pretty much close to the 44 special version.

    lipseyes 5" barrel 44spcl weighs 38 ounces while standard 3" barrel weighs ,

    standard 6 shot 6" in .357 weighs 45 ounces. 3" 6 shot weighs 36ounces empty 5" weighs 43 ounces



    Taurus model 66 7 shot 357 with 6" barrel is 40 ounces 4" barrel is 38 ounces 44 tracker with 4" barrel is 35 ounces

    yes, either way there will be recoil. that's expected.

    the old beartooth bullet data shows that the meplat is what counts as far as tissue damage goes, a 158 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps will do the same damage as a 44 mag 300 grain slug with .20 meplat at 1000fps but the thinner diameter makes it more prone to deflection..

    Its why im trying to get this figured out finally.
    I know squat about hunting bears of any sort. One of my step-fathers who was for a time a guide in Alaska told me about one of his hunters who was killed shooting a grizzly bear with a semi-auto 30-06. Dumped the magazine, reloaded, and dumped it again before the bear got to and killed him. Bear also died. SF saw it happening, not at all sure what he was doing or trying to do about it, if anything. I was about ten when he told this story, so may have lost details over the years. I'm just short of 65 now. Discussion of meplats triggered my interest, as I'd not heard or remembered that word in all the time I've been shooting or reading about it, but found this article that may be of interest: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...allistics.html

  9. #29
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    I think ChristopherO's post merits serious consideration. I was thinking the same thing while reading all the posts. When we lived there I used to fly fish in the tall and uncut of the Grays River drainage in western Wyoming. There was griz in the Grays. I carried a Freedom Arms Mod.97 in 45 Colt in a bandolier rig and it was loaded with 300 gr. hard cast at a chronographed 1100 fps. It was PLENTY in that small framed revolver but, I had no illusions of it being a stopper. Hopefully it would have been a discourager had I ever needed it. I honestly thank God I never had to find out. My point being, I much prefer a heavy bullet of large caliber.

    Since moving back to Mo., I don't load anything near that hot though we do have black bear. I carry a 44 Spl. or 45 Colt with 240 or 255 gr. Keith trype SWC's loaded to 1000 fps, + or - Stopper...no. No handgun can be a stopper in the same sense as a heavy rifle. I hope I never, ever need to draw it but if I do, honestly the best one can hope is that it is a discourager....unless a fella gets lucky and disrupts the CNS.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I think a that qualifies as a cornered animal, anything is dangerous in that situation. 10mm is the ballistic twin to 357 magnum.
    Agree with that. There is a bit of bravado involved as well...getting close enough to pull the dogs off...that was the case in all three cases guys got hurt. Not blaming the bear at all.

    As to the 10mm...it may be no better than a 357....I do not know....but these guys are not target shooters...so a 15 shot magazine capacity gives them great comfort. Normally, they put two three into the head when the bear is downed.
    Don Verna


  11. #31
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    I am a huge handgun hunter I mostly use a Ruger SBH with a 10” barrel with a lee 310 over a STIFF charge of H110 I can hit a 6x12 plate almost every shot at 100 yards.... will I kill a deer at 100... no 50 yes 75.... killed 2-3 at 75 but that’s my limit

    This little yearling was at 48 yards
    Attachment 259744

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by WinchesterM1 View Post
    I am a huge handgun hunter I mostly use a Ruger SBH with a 10” barrel with a lee 310 over a STIFF charge of H110 I can hit a 6x12 plate almost every shot at 100 yards.... will I kill a deer at 100... no 50 yes 75.... killed 2-3 at 75 but that’s my limit

    This little yearling was at 48 yards
    Attachment 259744
    I could have used my 17hmr at that range and had the same results, that load should be ample for a 1000 pound horse or a 600 pound moose at 100 yards if a 240 grain jhp/jsp at 1200 is considered good at 75 yards on moose

  13. #33
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    Geez guys, if you ever watched any of the old cowboy shows, the good ole 44/40 Winny could drop a griz at 100 yds, maybe a quarter of a mile. Windage and elevation.
    Never trade luck for skill.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumbo333 View Post
    Geez guys, if you ever watched any of the old cowboy shows, the good ole 44/40 Winny could drop a griz at 100 yds, maybe a quarter of a mile. Windage and elevation.

    Well they also had unlimited ammo and no reloading time

  15. #35
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    They could also shoot the bad guy's revolver out of his hand, from the hip.

  16. #36
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    I would likely opt for a magazine extension(load slugs or buckshot up front)for my turkey gun and carry a 44 Special or 45 Colt. I would also practice drawing and placing shots on target. Worst thing we got here is hogs.

    1Papalote

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Papalote View Post
    I would likely opt for a magazine extension(load slugs or buckshot up front)for my turkey gun and carry a 44 Special or 45 Colt. I would also practice drawing and placing shots on target. Worst thing we got here is hogs.

    1Papalote
    As has been said, any ammo not approved for turkey hunting found on your person is a big fine. I don't know what state the OP is in, but this likely means #4 or smaller birdshot. Buckshot or slugs would not be allowed. It seems a handgun is allowed.

  18. #38
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    Ok....so use an extended magazine with the largest shot allowed. I'm guessing that a rifle isn't allowed to hunt turkeys either? Glad to live where such restrictions do not exist.


    1Papalote

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Papalote View Post
    Ok....so use an extended magazine with the largest shot allowed. I'm guessing that a rifle isn't allowed to hunt turkeys either? Glad to live where such restrictions do not exist.


    1Papalote
    IN Michigan the ONLY legal thing allowed to hunt turkey with is a shotgun or a bow and crossbows. possessing a rifle in any caliber will equate poaching on your part if the DNR finds you.

    I can open carry a handgun for self defense in my state, so that's what im thinking. And why I tried asking this question but far to muc bologna popped up in it.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norske View Post
    Deer are thin-skinned and light-boned. Black bear and wild pigs are not. Black bear aren't hard to kill, but a 357 handgun certainly isn't the firearm of choice. My bear rifle is a 45-70 and the emergency handgun is a SBH with 300 gr Lee cast bullets, chosen because of their wide flat nose.
    As for really emergency bear protection, I'd choose the "Alaska load", a 12 gauge with birdshot in the chamber, exgtended magazine filled with slugs. If the birdshot doesn't change the bear's mind, the slugs can disable/dismember any bear according to our river fly fishing guide in Cooper's Landing, Alaska.
    A hog is not any tougher than a deer. I have used 44-240,-swc rcbs on deer and hogs out to 100 yards. With that said, I wont set up for deer over 50. I'd hail mary at hogs from 3 miles with a bb gun if thats all I had on me.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check