usable handgun range

[megasupermagnum]

IN Michigan the ONLY legal thing allowed to hunt turkey with is a shotgun or a bow and crossbows. possessing a rifle in any caliber will equate poaching on your part if the DNR finds you.

I can open carry a handgun for self defense in my state, so that's what im thinking. And why I tried asking this question but far to muc bologna popped up in it.

What more do you want? The 357 magnum you already own will do all that you want. The effective range for hunting with that gun could easily be 100 yards, although for most of us mortals, our accuracy limits us much closer. A 44 special will not gain you anything significant, and may be a downgrade. There are stronger rounds out there, but your specified recoil and performance standard of a 200 grain at 1000 fps puts the 357 magnum as the top of the heap.

[Norske]

My effective range is about 1/2 what it was 30 years ago.

[nikonuser]

What more do you want? The 357 magnum you already own will do all that you want. The effective range for hunting with that gun could easily be 100 yards, although for most of us mortals, our accuracy limits us much closer. A 44 special will not gain you anything significant, and may be a downgrade. There are stronger rounds out there, but your specified recoil and performance standard of a 200 grain at 1000 fps puts the 357 magnum as the top of the heap.

the internet itself puts 200 grains at 1000fps at muzzle as the "minimum" for hunting

[Texas by God]

just the semi redundant question about the usefulness of a handgun for the serious taking of game and defense against wild animals.

A person can get a rifle round chambered in a contender, but im simply focusing on standard pistol rounds like .357 magnum, 44special/magnum, 45 colt. But in standard loads of standard weight bullets at standard velocities.

160 to 200 grains at 1000 to 1100 fps for .357
200 to 260 for 44 special, yes elmer/skeeter loading data MAX
260 and under for 44 magnum at standard 44 magnum velocity
300 grain at N frame pressure and velocity for 45 colt

Im simply at the defensive shooter stage of working with a revolver. 6 inch .357 and 158 grain bullets. And after an unpleasant outing with friends turkey hunting that included a black bear that wasn't impressed with us until both of us did a mag dump at the same time with our shotguns, I started wondering about the usefulness of standard 158 grain 357 loads.

I really do want a new handgun that would be BETTER for bear defense, but also give the option of deer hunting with recoil sane loads.

Get a .41 magnum.

[1Papalote]

the internet itself puts 200 grains at 1000fps at muzzle as the "minimum" for hunting

This is getting silly like arguing with a stump.
Does your state set limits on HG performance as they do for shot size? If so , your answer may be there.
For protection, anything in addition to your #4s would be to your advantage.

1Papalote

[White Oak]

the internet itself puts 200 grains at 1000fps at muzzle as the "minimum" for hunting

You have a greater chance of being hospitalized or dying from a tick bite than a black bear attack.
“The internet” states the best way to avoid tick borne illness is to stay away from areas that have ticks. If you do this it will also solve the problem of a possible bear attack.

[white eagle]

If you are worried about your 357 get a 44 and practice with the magnum

[robinsroost]

A second vote for the .41 magnum. Mine is a Model 57 S&W, 4 inch, loaded with 210 grain WFNGC, tumble lubed with Lee liquid Alox, over max loads of H110......robin

[megasupermagnum]

A second vote for the .41 magnum. Mine is a Model 57 S&W, 4 inch, loaded with 210 grain WFNGC, tumble lubed with Lee liquid Alox, over max loads of H110......robin

That load would likely net you 1300-1400 fps. 41 magnum could certainly fit the bill, but a 200 or 210 grain bullet at 1000 fps would be a rather tame loading.

[Norske]

But for animals that may require broken bones to stop, momentum is a much better measure of effectiveness than kinetic energy. To convert, divide the KE by the velocity (both found in loading software or manuals) and take that value times 2.

[megasupermagnum]

But for animals that may require broken bones to stop, momentum is a much better measure of effectiveness than kinetic energy. To convert, divide the KE by the velocity (both found in loading software or manuals) and take that value times 2.

The OP specifies he wants a 200 grain bullet at 1000 fps, give or take. I don't care what caliber it comes out of, the energy and momentum is always the same if the the bullet weight and velocity is the same. All there is to argue is minuscule differences.

[curioushooter]

In your 6" 357 magnum, the cartridge is capable of 1500 fps with a 158 grain, 1400 with a 170-180 grain, and 1300 fps with a 200 grain, give or take. That is what you can do within the current SAMMI pressure spec with powders like H110, Lil' Gun, 300-MP, maybe 2400.

This is not what my chrono shows. I consistently load to 35Kpsi max loads with 300MP, the highest performance powder available for 357 magnum, and it gets about 200-330 FPS less than these velocities you list in my 5" S&W 686 with a .003" gap.

Reality is more like this: max load of 300MP with a 158 is ~1250 FPS, with a 180 it's about 1175. That's all 357 is capable of unless you are going over modern SAMMI spec or have a really long barrel. When you crank it all the way UP to 45K PSI or thereabouts loads, which I have done in my 357 Max contender, it does much better, giving velocities like you state. That is 10" of barrel, with no gap, and going about 20% over max.

Old max 357 (pre 1995) pushed a 158 about 1500 FPS from a 8"+ revolver, about 1400 from a 4-6". Most of the big game listed as being taken by 357 were taken with one of these long barreled N-frames using these extremely high pressure loads that could do real damage to more weakly constructed firearms. For comparison a 44 special N-frame can deliver more power and do it at much lower pressures and send a much larger bullet.

The best bear load you are going to get with a 357 mag is going to be a 170-225 grain cast solid (a Lyman 358429, various 180 grain designs or the lyman 358627) going around 1100-1200 FPS. These a penetration monster bullets with high SD. Will go through bone. Recoil will be tolerable. I have done a lot of gel testing and even shot bones. 36 caliber cast solids are good perpetrators for sure and do not need massive velocity to do it. They just need enough weight. The 358429 in 38+P is a formidable perpetrator...it goes through over 28" of gel block and I've tested it 5 times.

A much better choice would be to use a bigger bore...a.429 or .452...44 special+p/magnum or 45 colt +p. My S&W 624 with a 6.5" pipe puts a 429421, a 255 grain bullet, at 1100-1200 FPS easily from well established 44 +P load data. This will be an excellent penetrator as well with a larger hole in its wake. Ruger Blackhawks in 45 colt have well established performance that even surpasses this all with tolerable recoil.

[curioushooter]

You have a greater chance of being hospitalized or dying from a tick bite than a black bear attack.

This is probably true. I have relatives that have been repeatedly hospitalized from tick bites, and a friend who suffers from lyme disease, even experiencing a miscarriage likely caused by a tick of all things.

My wife has a relative (from Kentucky) that beat a black bear around the head so savagely with an empty whisky bottle it took off running. It seems to be about attitude with black bears. A stick wielded with the right attitude is more effective than a gun with the wrong attitude.