Emil Echoldt Suhl

[Longknife]

Some may call this a shot gun but I believe Emil had other ideas for its use. The 12ga smoothbore barrels have a nice brown Damascus pattern and are 24 3/4 inches long. Upon a closer look you notice that instead of the customary bead front sight Emil fitted a longer, narrow blade type front sight and 7 1/2 inches from the breech he fitted a folding rifle-type sight complete with a silver insert. Looking at the tang there is,,,,a,,, folding rifle-type peep sight. It is completely adjustable for windage and elevation and folds neatly into a recess in the tang. If you take a look at the engraving, one lock is engraved with what appears to be waterfowl and the other lock is engraved with some type of antlered, four legged creatures,,, deer I am sure. It is apparent that Emil meant this to be a multi purpose firearm for all kinds of game!!!!!!….Ed

I have shot this with .690 round balls and shortened shotcups in Winchester AA's with 70 and 75 grains of FF. I also tried patching the .690s' and could not tell any difference. Groups were a little high and too far apart so I have loaded same shells with 80 and 85 FF. Hope it groups a little better as the lite 6 3/4 lb gun does tend to kick a fair amount!!!!

[725]

That's a beauty!

[longbow]

Yes indeed, very nice!!

Wouldn't a 0.715" RB be a better size for patching? I guess thick cloth on the 0.690" should work fine too.

One fellow posted here that he had patched 0.690" RB's into shotshells like muzzleloading and they shot well. I figured the patch would strip off opening the crimp or during the jump through the forcing cone but maybe there is enough gas leakage at ignition to keep it on the ball. Regardless he claimed good groups. I haven't tried that yet.

From a muzzleloader with cylinder bore each barrel should produce quite decent groups to 50 yards with a patched ball I'd think. Regulation to get both barrels shooting to same POI could take some load tinkering unless you can find the original load the gun was regulated for. You might try some different size RB's too ~ 0.715" is readily available and may suit with appropriate cloth thickness, and Tanner Moulds in the UK can make about anything you want.

725 (poster above) has a 0.702" RB mould.

Please post your results with this beauty!

Longbow

[Longknife]

Longbow, There are a a couple of reasons I started with a .690 ball. For one I like to start low and go up to work up a load. Also the bore on this ol girl is a bit tight at .725. A .715 ball at just .010 under is way too tight to shoot in a smoothbore if you use any kind of substantial patching. I did try some loads with the .690 patched with lubed pillow ticking and I really couldn't tell any difference in the groups. The .690 fits nice an snug in a shot cup. When I tried a .715 in a shot cup or a patch the shell would deform and you could see a bulge where the ball was. They were both really tight in the shell and would have been tighter in the bore. In my testing the groups were both shooting high and apart. In a SXS the recoil causes the barrels to go up and to the right on the rt barrel and to the left on a the left barrel, to regulate you need more velocity, that is, you need to get the ball out of the barrel faster before the recoil moves the barrel and the group up and apart. A .715 which weighs more will reduce velocity and I would then have to increase powder charge to overcome extra ball weight. I am hoping the 80 or 85 grains will get the groups closer with the .690 ball. When I load the shells I cut the cushion off of the shot cup, load a thick lubed wad over the powder. put the ball in the cup and push it all home. It fits snug enough that I don't need to crimp. I'll let you know the next range results....Ed

[GARD72977]

Thanks for sharing. I have never seen one of these. WOW!

[longbow]

On that basis I wonder if 0.678" or 0.662" RB's might do even better both being lighter. 0.678" is a "convenient" size in that it is just right for many standard shotcups. 0.662" is a bit undersize but patching or paper wrap solves that.

Mind you, when I tried plastic shotcups over BP loads in a cartridge gun I got really bad plastic fouling! If you cut the cushion leg off the wad and use a lubed felt of fiber wad under the shotcup that might reduce or eliminate that plastic fouling... if you find it a problem. I certainly did!

Interesting stuff and a fine gun you are getting to play with! That is a beauty!

I'll be watching for more!

Longbow

[skeettx]

SWEET
Would love to see that in the field with turkeys

[Longknife]

well I tried the 80 and 85 grain under .690 balls. Each barrel shoots a decent group but the groups are 6 inched high and 6 inches apart. I believe the 85 grains might be the maximum for this 6 3/4 lb gun as it was getting a little unmanageable!!!!...Hmmm gonna try some .650's,,,,Ed