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Thread: Lube for my newly swaged bumped bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy lablover's Avatar
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    Lube for my newly swaged bumped bullets

    Just getting into this Swage thing and am impressed. I cast .32 swc bullets for a target pistol. I have 2 molds. One for lube grooves and one with no lube groove. I cast them first the use my blockman Swage press and dies to bump them and also create a hollow base. Works great on the no lube groove version. I have been using Hitek to lube and all is well. My question is could that same bullet with no lube grooves be lubed with a tumble lube like Alox, or Lars liquid lube? Iím not a giant Hitek fan yet and want other options. My concern obviously is leading due to lack of lube. My thought that any tumble lube on the bullet will be removed when seating.

    I could also use the lube groove version and still bump them and have the hollow base but after swaging the lube groove is almost gone. However it would hold a little liquid tumble lube.

    Looking for any suggestions on options or lube ideas. I was thinking a canalure type lube groove bt those .32 bullets are tiny.

    And also starting to research making my own xtp style jacketed but Iíll save that after I have more experience

  2. #2
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    garandsrus's Avatar
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    Lube the lube groove bullet with traditional lube before swaging. The lube is not compressible so the grooves wonít disappear.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    For a jacket for 32cal pistol bullets I use spent 50bmg primers with the anvil removed. I drop in a 25cal cast bullet of about 70 gr and swage this in a Swag-O-Matic press for an 85gr swc.

  4. #4
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    I've changed the shape of many cast bullets in my swaging dies. I just lube as normal, then swage. The lube stays in place and holds the lube groove open, as garandsrus mentions. It's super quick and works well.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy lablover's Avatar
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    I tried a traditional lubed bullet last night and around the hollow base the lead is cratering outwards....maybe I’m swaging too much? I can back off and it goes away but then my hollow base isn’t much of a hollow base any more

    I appreciate the help

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy lablover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    For a jacket for 32cal pistol bullets I use spent 50bmg primers with the anvil removed. I drop in a 25cal cast bullet of about 70 gr and swage this in a Swag-O-Matic press for an 85gr swc.
    That’s a pretty slick idea! I’d be interested in your set up to do that..dies etc. time to scour the net for spent 50 bmg primers

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lablover View Post
    I tried a traditional lubed bullet last night and around the hollow base the lead is cratering outwards....maybe I’m swaging too much? I can back off and it goes away but then my hollow base isn’t much of a hollow base any more

    I appreciate the help
    I use Magma lube for just about everything, and it's a hard lube. If you're using a softer lube, it may flow more than a hard lube does.

    Hope this helps.

    Fred
    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    The non-grooved boolit can be lubed with LLA , Ben's Liquid Lube, Lars, 45-45-10 or others, but you're right, without some surface texture to hold it in place, most will be removed when seating them. When I need to lube a slick, I lay them on a flat surface and roll them using a medium cut mill file which "knurls" the surface and the lube has something to hang onto. Velocity will be limited. You'd be better off to PC those, either before or after swaging.

    For the grooved boolit, size and lube them in a conventional manner first, then swage. If your castings are of consistent weight/volume, experiment some to find that sweet spot where you get just the right amount of swage to get the hollows base correctly filled out. If you get finning around the heel punch, you're running it a touch too far into the die. The heel punch may be lacking .001 or so in diameter and could be bigger. An idea I'm playing with is to copper-plate my heel punch to increase the diameter for a closer fit in the die body. The copper is too soft to wear the hardened die, but will reduce the leakage (finning) around the punch. Another way to deal with finning is to stand the swaged boolit on its heel on a finely textured surface like a piece of cold rolled steel. Push down on it and rub it in a circle. This will displace the finning outward and flatten the heel. Then run them heel-first into a size die to mold the finning into the sides of the boolit. This will give you a flat base and a nice, sharply defined corner ready for loading or PC.

    A word on PC: If you PC boolits, it's important to get as even a coating as you reasonably can, rather than way thick on one side and barely there on the other. Grossly uneven coating has the effect of displacing center of gravity from center of geometry. When physically confined by the barrel, the boolit rotates around its geometric center. When released on exit, it rotates around center of gravity. If the two are not the same, there will be a displacement on exit which affects accuracy. Action pistol shooters and those plinking for fun will not notice this, but if you're swaging boolits for match-winning accuracy in competition, this effect will show up. The evenness of my PC coatings have improved noticeably since I started using airsoft BB's when dry-tumble PC'ing. YMMV. With an even coat, you can run them through the swager a second time using only a light pressure and they come out beautifully uniform.

    You can also use your swage die to gas check plain base boolits, by inserting them heel-first and swage enough ogive onto the heel so that they have a sloppy-loose fit in a gas check. That way, the gas check will fill with lead from the center out, not from the top down. Too close a fit in the check and the sides will be forced downward and the heel will have an uneven wire edge. This is easily avoided with a little more reduction on the heel.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy lablover's Avatar
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    Wow!

    That was a wealth of information! Printing that bad boy out. Can’t thank you enough for that. I’m also playing with what I call a button base. Just a shallow hole in the base. They come out great! However with our current covid situation range time is not gonna happen around here. So frustrating

    Right now I’m just trying Hitek but would also like to try some PC. Accuracy is very important in this particular pistol. I was shooting Hornady 60 gr XTP but they have been discontinued! 85s are a option but if I can get lead to hold the 10 ring at 50 yards it would make for a great savings

    Thanks again for the info

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    No problem! Good luck going for the high scores.

    As I sit here and think about it, your priority seems to be accuracy more than anything. You don't mention how heavy your boolits are or what alloy/BHN you're using. For pistols, I use 1:1 WW:soft lead for a BHN of ~9 and get good obturation without mag pressures or velocities. I'm also curious as to your use of a hollow base, but it will help keep a good gas seal. I messed with hollow-base boolits when I first started swaging, but found my groups were not materially improved, so I went with a flat base. Your situation may well not be the same. In any case, to provide as homogenous and consistent a boolit as possible, it might be good to just go with a lubed and swaged cast boolit. Simple, easy and there's only two components to it. A soft lube like Carnauba Blue might be good, but Carnauba Red serves me pretty well.

    What pistol are you using?

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy lablover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahbub View Post
    No problem! Good luck going for the high scores.

    As I sit here and think about it, your priority seems to be accuracy more than anything. You don't mention how heavy your boolits are or what alloy/BHN you're using. For pistols, I use 1:1 WW:soft lead for a BHN of ~9 and get good obturation without mag pressures or velocities. I'm also curious as to your use of a hollow base, but it will help keep a good gas seal. I messed with hollow-base boolits when I first started swaging, but found my groups were not materially improved, so I went with a flat base. Your situation may well not be the same. In any case, to provide as homogenous and consistent a boolit as possible, it might be good to just go with a lubed and swaged cast boolit. Simple, easy and there's only two components to it. A soft lube like Carnauba Blue might be good, but Carnauba Red serves me pretty well.

    What pistol are you using?
    Pardini HP .32 acp. My lead is about 12 bhn. It’s more of an experiment than anything right now. I also have a flat base punch for the base. 60 gr swc. A fella I know has played with the HB in his same pistol and his having pretty good luck

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    I shoot a Pardini HP in 32acp with a swaged 64 gr SWC that is 0.315" diameter and lubed with 45/45/10. I have no leading problems and great accuracy. I size my cases (custom sizer) so that the ID of the case after sizing is 0.314". I do not use an expander as I found using one gave me poor accuracy.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy lablover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistol Champ View Post
    I shoot a Pardini HP in 32acp with a swaged 64 gr SWC that is 0.315" diameter and lubed with 45/45/10. I have no leading problems and great accuracy. I size my cases (custom sizer) so that the ID of the case after sizing is 0.314". I do not use an expander as I found using one gave me poor accuracy.

    Now that’s some interesting data. What made you decide on .315? I know the pardini bore is generous .314 but newer models have a .312 choke at the muzzle. I’d love to hear more details on your sizing dies as well

    Thank you

  14. #14
    Boolit Bub
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    I shot bullets in different diameters from 0.313 to 0.315 in 0.0005 increments the 0.315 were accurate and did not lead up the barrel. I bought a set of sizing dies in 0.001" increments to get a die to match up with the brass I was using.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check