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Thread: how much force to push cast bullet through cylinder throats???

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc0811 View Post
    Sorry I was trying to say Cylinder throat dia.
    Now is chamber throat and cylinder throat the same thing?
    No. A typical revolver cylinder has six chambers (some more, some fewer). Each chamber has a throat. There is no such thing as a "cylinder throat."

    Quote Originally Posted by usmc0811 View Post
    I'm also a little confused when you say "Bullets should match the chamber throat diameter" and then go into saying this "ever so slightly smaller than throat diameter" What one is it same or smaller?? or were you talking about two different things?
    "Match" and "equal" are not synonyms. For example, when you take apart two bolt action rifles, you should match each bolt to the rifle from which it was removed. The bolts are correctly matched to their rifles if each rifle is reassembled with the bolt it came with.

    A cast bullet is correctly matched to the chamber in which it will be fired if the bullet is ever so slightly smaller than the throat of the chamber.
    Last edited by Tatume; 04-01-2020 at 12:08 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc0811
    Sorry I was trying to say Cylinder throat dia.
    Now is chamber throat and cylinder throat the same thing?
    as a "cylinder throat."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tatume View Post
    No. A typical revolver cylinder has six chambers (some more, some fewer). Each chamber has a throat. There is no such thing as a "cylinder throat."
    We are dealing with semantics here. You can certainly make the case that there are cylinder throats (as in 6 of them). In any case, whichever term is used it is understood what is meant.

    Don
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

  3. #23
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    English is a wonderful and rich language. It can be used to accurately communicate complex ideas in very great detail. When we allow the language to deteriorate to "you can figure out what I meant," much of the richness and utility are lost.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Chamber exits?
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSR View Post
    What??? Don't you realize that the only thing dimensionally different about a .38 Special and a .357 Magnum is the length of the case?

    Don
    I was trying to determine what Tatume means by Chamber throat and assumed he meant the point inside the cylinder where the chamber tapers from the case diameter to the bullet diameter... In post #14 he indicates there is a chamber throat and another throat further down the cylinder.

    Match the bullet to the cylinder throats... Calling them chamber throats or something else just causes confusion.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    It requires quite a bit of force to push a bullet 0.001" larger than cyl throat size, more than finger pressure. The only way to know is actually measure the throats with an ID microm or pin gages. What trying to push a bullet thru will tell you is if the throats are too small or over size. If I can't with finger pressure push a bullet say 0.358" thru the throat, then I know the throat is a bit tight. I just don't know how much unless I can actually measure it. One could used sized bullets like pin gages though, up & down 0.001", & get better idea.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddog81 View Post
    I was trying to determine what Tatume means by Chamber throat and assumed he meant the point inside the cylinder where the chamber tapers from the case diameter to the bullet diameter... In post #14 he indicates there is a chamber throat and another throat further down the cylinder.

    Match the bullet to the cylinder throats... Calling them chamber throats or something else just causes confusion.
    You know what he meant. If you want to play the grammar game, you should know that what you are calling "chambers" in a revolver cylinder, are in actuality called charge holes, and always have been. By calling them cylinder throats, he is speaking more accurately than you are. Again we all know what everyone meant, but technically the throat in a revolver is the tapered section in the back of the barrel, leading into the rifling.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy usmc0811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddog81 View Post
    I was trying to determine what Tatume means by Chamber throat and assumed he meant the point inside the cylinder where the chamber tapers from the case diameter to the bullet diameter... In post #14 he indicates there is a chamber throat and another throat further down the cylinder.

    Match the bullet to the cylinder throats... Calling them chamber throats or something else just causes confusion.
    Yup thats what confused me to. The chamber is different than the cylinder.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master s mac's Avatar
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    And don't forget the cylinder throats need to be uniform to each other as well.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post
    Remember this: if your cylinder throats (aka chamber throats) are, for example .430 and you boolit is .432, you are sending a .430 boolit down the barrel. nawagner, if you are getting accuracy without any leading you probably have a .451 or .452 barrel. The smaller cylinder throats are actually sizing the boolit to .452 but congrats for no issues, just shoot and enjoy. Your boolits should be a "light" slip fit, OR you can buy a few pin guages for cheap and KNOW exactly what the throats measure. As many, here, are prolly tired of hearing me advocate for the use of pin (or sometimes called plug guages), they solved a lot of accuracy and leading problems for me. Those, and a 1" micrometer to measure slugging the barrel, have been a huge help. Can I guarantee that your barrel wont lead and be rifle accurate? No, but it is a leg up on the starting process for sure.
    Yes, my bore is 0.451" and the bullets I use are the Hornady cast 255gr with the knurling. The knurling is pretty light so when seated into the case it actually ends up at 0.452, the perfect size. I also cut my cone to 11 deg which also helped a lot. I guess I should have been more specific about why the 0.454" bullets work so well in my gun, why I think Schreck5 will be ok, and also why I reamed my throats so I could shoot lead bullets without issues to answer USSR's question on why 0.454" bullets.
    Last edited by nawagner; 04-02-2020 at 12:52 AM.

  11. #31
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    Chamber throat is usually associated with a rifle. Cylinder throat is associated with a revolver because rifles (most of them) don't have cylinders but revolvers do. The chamfer at the end of the chamber is just that, it is transition into the throat. Some call this chamfer the ball seat.

    In a perfect world, a revolver boolit would be sized .001" to .002" greater than groove diameter, throat diameter would be .0005" to .001" greater than boolit diameter.

    This way, the boolit has a light drag fit in the throats (which is THE correct fitment, not forced through, not falling through loosely) which would hold the boolit concentric to and squared to the centerline of the chamber, it is snug enough in the throat that you won't need to worry about powder gas escaping along side the boolit which would then cause leading in the throat and the barrel, and it will be presented to the bore sized as intended.

    If the alloy is soft enough, and the boolit is seated over a suitable charge of propellant to generate enough pressure for the boolit to obturate or "bump up" to fill the throat, this works great too, as the boolit is sealed very nicely in the throat before it even leaves the case all the way. This works very well, and if throats are of consistent diameter, the gun will group well without leading the bore.

    Quote Originally Posted by s mac View Post
    And don't forget the cylinder throats need to be uniform to each other as well.
    ^^^^This, is the most important thing about any revolver cylinder. Uneven throats cause variations in pressure, which causes the gun to recoil differently in the shooter's hands from shot to shot, and this causes it to shoot to different points of impact. The recoil impulse needs to be consistent for every shot to be accurate and group well.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 04-02-2020 at 09:07 AM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    You know what he meant. If you want to play the grammar game, you should know that what you are calling "chambers" in a revolver cylinder, are in actuality called charge holes, and always have been. By calling them cylinder throats, he is speaking more accurately than you are. Again we all know what everyone meant, but technically the throat in a revolver is the tapered section in the back of the barrel, leading into the rifling.
    Whatever... In post #14 he said the "chamber throat" leads into the "throat" and these 2 different throats should have 2 different diameters. I had no idea what he was talking about and neither did the OP.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    I've always like the bullet to be sized so that they hang in the cylinders when dropped in (muzzle pointed down) when released with holding the base of the bullet and lowering the nose of the bullet into the cylinders until my fingers hit the back of the cylinders, then release the bullet. Doing this allows you to look at the bullets to see if they are all even in the cylinders. If they are not all the chambers of the cylinders are not even. The bullets should be able to push out with a pencil using little to no effort (the weight of the pencil). If a bullet drops thru or takes more force than the other to push out of the chambers of the cylinders, it's not a good thing.

    Anyway everyone has their favorite spotted puppy and this is mine/how I test my bullet sizes in the chambers of the cylinders.

  14. #34
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    I'm gonna get away from this thread. The quarantine/stay at home must be getting to some fellers as this thread has gone from a simple new lead shooter's question to "discussion" of the "proper" terms describing revolver parts and the intricacies of the American language (which differs from the English language if you wanna get picky).

    FWIW I knew immediately what the OP meant; the holes in the end of the cylinder (that I call "cylinder throats")...

    Have a nice day fellers, brother cast boolit shooters...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdi View Post
    I'm gonna get away from this thread. The quarantine/stay at home must be getting to some fellers as this thread has gone from a simple new lead shooter's question to "discussion" of the "proper" terms describing revolver parts and the intricacies of the American language (which differs from the English language if you wanna get picky).

    FWIW I knew immediately what the OP meant; the holes in the end of the cylinder (that I call "cylinder throats")...

    Have a nice day fellers, brother cast boolit shooters...
    HAHA thats why I have been staying clear also. But thank you everyone who has answered my questions. Keep reloading and keep safe.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy usmc0811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest r View Post
    I've always like the bullet to be sized so that they hang in the cylinders when dropped in (muzzle pointed down) when released with holding the base of the bullet and lowering the nose of the bullet into the cylinders until my fingers hit the back of the cylinders, then release the bullet. Doing this allows you to look at the bullets to see if they are all even in the cylinders. If they are not all the chambers of the cylinders are not even. The bullets should be able to push out with a pencil using little to no effort (the weight of the pencil). If a bullet drops thru or takes more force than the other to push out of the chambers of the cylinders, it's not a good thing.

    Anyway everyone has their favorite spotted puppy and this is mine/how I test my bullet sizes in the chambers of the cylinders.
    Thanks Forrest. Now run Forrest, Run!!!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmc0811 View Post
    Thanks Forrest. Now run Forrest, Run!!!
    I'd rather walk and get them all

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