Trying to find good data for Sub-2000 and 995 loads. NOT EASY! Any suggestions?

[SirNomad]

Howdy guys,

I THINK this is the right group for this question.:

I have a couple of pistol caliber carbines (KelTec Sub2000 and Hi-Point 995). I think it would be counter-productive to use a powder like Titegroup in them. I have H-110 and Unique, and I've been looking for load data that would make the most of the extra barrel lengths. I KNOW that 9mm luger wasn't originally designed as a rifle/carbine round. I've got cast bullets in the 125 grain range, but can go heavier and lighter. Both carbines are rated for +P loads. You guys have any suggestions, recipes, etc.?

Thanks!

[Texas by God]

I'd be inclined to go with Unique or Power Pistol, definitely not H110.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Earlwb]

I just used the loads from the Lyman book or Hodgdon's book with my Keltec Sub2000. it wasn't picky, it worked with everything. There isn't a Holy Grail load for it.
Same thing for my High Point 995 too. It works with everything.
Was there something specific you were wanting to use?

[SirNomad]

I just used the loads from the Lyman book or Hodgdon's book with my Keltec Sub2000. it wasn't picky, it worked with everything. There isn't a Holy Grail load for it.
Same thing for my High Point 995 too. It works with everything.
Was there something specific you were wanting to use?

Well, I noticed that there was a TREMENDOUS difference in potential using H110 for my .357 magnum, between a 4" barrel and my 18" carbine. So I was looking for loads that would experience a similar boost between the two, going between the 4.75" barrel of my open carry piece and the 16+" of one of my carbines. I'd like a load that would take more advantage of the potential of the much longer barrel of my carbines, that I could load specifically for them.

[Wild Bill 7]

Try 3.7 Green Dot with the 125 gr. cast. It's a few grains below start data but it works good in my Glock 17 and my Hi Point 995. I don't shoot more than 25 yards with either but both are minute of clay pigeon at that distance. I also used that load for a steel and cardboard match which worked very good. JMHO also.

[Kenstone]

Well, I noticed that there was a TREMENDOUS difference in potential using H110 for my .357 magnum, between a 4" barrel and my 18" carbine. So I was looking for loads that would experience a similar boost between the two, going between the 4.75" barrel of my open carry piece and the 16+" of one of my carbines. I'd like a load that would take more advantage of the potential of the much longer barrel of my carbines, that I could load specifically for them.

I'm not sure the 9mm case can handle the extra pressure.
Is that 357 a blowback design?
My 995 shoots fine with the stuff I load for pistol...all coated bullets though.
For me, it's not a benchrest gun, just a short distance range toy.

[Cast_outlaw]

Blue dot around 5gr with a 158gr swc worked up right can be devastating might be worth a try pm me if you interested in more info

[SirNomad]

I'm not sure the 9mm case can handle the extra pressure.
Is that 357 a blowback design?
My 995 shoots fine with the stuff I load for pistol...all coated bullets though.
it's not a benchrest gun, just a short distance range toy.

Nah, the .357 I have is a lever gun, my 9s are both blowback semi-autos I believe.

[tazman]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...9mm-rifle-load

The above thread is specifically for 9mm rifle similar to the question you posed. Good information in there.

[richhodg66]

Doesn't seem like a 9mm has enough case capacity for H110 to even get normal ballistics with it, probably can't fit enough of it in the case to make it work well.

[SirNomad]

Doesn't seem like a 9mm has enough case capacity for H110 to even get normal ballistics with it, probably can't fit enough of it in the case to make it work well.

That was exactly my concern with that exact powder, so I was hoping to hear more options.

[richhodg66]

That was exactly my concern with that exact powder, so I was hoping to hear more options.

I think if you have Unique on hand, that's all you need. I haven't loaded 9mm for a long time, but it seems to me like it responded well to the standards, i.e., Unique, Bullseye, 7625, etc.

The 9mm doesn't have the case capacity to see much benefit from a longer barrel it seems to me. Niether does the .45 ACP. To compare those with the .357 magnum is an apples to oranges kind of thing.

[Earlwb]

Well one thought is that the carbines are regulated to work with the standard loads for pistols. Trying to use slower burning propellants may result in misfeeds etc. Another thought is the bolt may unlock while the propellant is still burning to some extent.

[richhodg66]

I think the High Points are true blow backs, nothing locks.

I really don't think you're gonna do much better that Unique loads in the 9mm.

[buckshotshoey]

Load up some 147,s and try it. A friends HiPoint responded favorably to the heavier bullet. He just used a standard pistol recipe. May not be the same improvement for the Keltec, but it might respond favorably.

I do admit I dont know what powder he used. And he used a jacketed bullet. Accuracy was just as good as lighter bullets, but they did hit the plates harder.

[Kenstone]

Well one thought is that the carbines are regulated to work with the standard loads for pistols. Trying to use slower burning propellants may result in misfeeds etc. Another thought is the bolt may unlock while the propellant is still burning to some extent.

Ha-ha
Could result in a unique fire ball out of the ejection port
I'm thinking the bolt cannot "unlock" though, as it never locks, just spring pressure holding it closed.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yes I'd just load with standard pistol loads and be done with it. There is little to be gained by using different powders over the gains from the longer barrel with regular loads as it sits. There is nothing to be gained by increasing the velocity 25 fps.

My S2K is a .40 S&W and the problem running hotter loads in it, are increased bolt thrust which can be detrimental to the gun. They make a Brass bolt for those guns which is heavier and slows the recoil impulse down to where it doesn't beat the gun up.

If you just shot 147 gr boolits, you'd be getting everything there is to be had out of that gun/cartridge combo.

Powder Coating might get you a little more.

Randy.

[popper]

Exactly the reason my 'PCC' is 300 BO pistol. 357 and better performance. 145gr @ 13-1400 fps is fun, accurate and cheap.

[Tokarev]

No one mentioned HS6 yet. I ran 6.4 gr of HS6 behind Frontier 124 gr bullets in my CX4 carbine and the case was not full.

[mnewcomb59]

I have several loads that I shoot out to 200 in my Marlin Camp 9. Power Pistol is where you wanna be.

It will reach max pressure with a full case. Any slower, and a full case gets you less and less pressure. Several other powders in this burn range work okay such as AA#7, Longshot, BE-86, Unique, etc.

For cast, I shoot the ranch dog 135 gas check and the Lee 124 TL round nose. Many people dislike the 124 TL bullet but it shoots great for me. My 9mms are my only guns that NEED a harder alloy for best performance. 10" twist is ridiculously fast and will stabilize a 350 grain .355 bullet, so they really wanna strip the rifling compared to the same bullets in my 30" twist Rossi. I need at least wheel weights sweetened with type metal to 4% antimony, and 5% is good too.

Case prep is more important than charge weight. Sort, chamfer, lube case necks so they expand evenly. Sorted and prepped cases give me sub 1" groups at 50 yards for 10 shots. Mixed cases open it up to 2.5".

HARD 124 rn, powder coated with 5.3 gr Power Pistol is going about 1350 fps and accurate at 200 yards. 2-2.5 MOA 10 shots at 200 yards with 4x BDC scope. In SD pheasant hunting last fall we spotted a prairie dog town. First shot at about 200 yards in the wind I pegged a dog. Guessed at yardage and 10 mph cross wind and lobbed one in there. 900 fps round nose didn't impress him too much and I peppered him again on the way into his hole.

The Ranch Dog bullet shoots great also, keeping around 2 MOA out to 200. The gas check allows a softer alloy, but nothing soft enough to expand with the modest velocities. Accuracy deteriorates with alloys under 10 BHN, probably because of nose slump, and soft alloys sometimes deform on the feed ramp and jam with the heavy blowback operation. I shoot this bullet with WW alloy most times and have taken a deer with it, and 4 deer with it loaded in the 357. At the lower speed with ACWW, it broke the front leg bone, passed through the offside shoulder blade and exited.

I am working on my new 124 HP for about a year now trying to find a good carbine load. Plain base and 9-12 BHN are making it more difficult.

So far, 1-1-98 alloy shoots great subsonic out to 200 yards. I can get a double tap off then hear a double tink. Recovered bullets from 1200 fps launch show obvious skidding and powder coat loss.

2-2-96 shoots okay at 1350 fps. Recovered bullets show minor skidding and intact powder coat. 10 Shots 2.5" at 50 yards.

I need to get out to test 2.5-2.5-95 for accuracy, up close retained weight and lower limit velocity for expansion.