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Thread: Conical boolits for ROA and other 45 BP revolvers

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Conical boolits for ROA and other 45 BP revolvers

    Hello folks, didn't participate in discussion here for a while. Gearing up to fire first shots from my unfired Ruger Old Army. Hope to do that beginning of July. Presently, I am grounded (Not infected, thank you God!) because of this corona issue, due the general restrictions, possibly for a next couple months.

    Anyhow, I would like to get a mold for a conical boolit. Would prefer something like 240-260 grains. Yes, I am aware of discussion regarding Lyman conical and some Minie style boolits several years ago. What is situation with Kaido Ojamaa conicals, is production taken by Lee? I just checked Lee website, couldn't find about Kaido style molds.

    Is anything else new on the market regarding molds for muzzle loading revolvers? Thanks!
    Last edited by Onty; 03-31-2020 at 05:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    For the price of a new mold you could shop at Accurate (has some good percussion designs) or for that matter design your own and discuss with Tom there about making it.

    I generally use existing Ideal, Lyman or RCBS molds and size them to suit the revolver. But that path has one down falling in that cartridge revolver and pistol molds have lube grooves and extended noses. Both are a waste of volume that could do better service as lead or powder.

    Something I want to do some day is get a percussion revolver boolit mold with a flattened elliptical rounded backside. I'm thinking it could be a heavier boolit that would enjoy the accuracy benefits of round ball.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    The Lee conical works well in both of my ROA's!

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    How important is HB (hollow base) boolit design for Ruger Old Army, and Remington and Colt system muzzle loading revolvers?

    Another question; do you apply lubricant on front face of cylinder with conicals loaded, to prevent chain fire from front side of cylinder?

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onty View Post
    How important is HB (hollow base) boolit design for Ruger Old Army, and Remington and Colt system muzzle loading revolvers?
    Not very. Mine shoots very well with the Lee bullet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Onty View Post
    Another question; do you apply lubricant on front face of cylinder with conicals loaded, to prevent chain fire from front side of cylinder?
    Yes, always.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    This is the mold I and some others like.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSear...temsPerPage=48

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onty View Post
    Another question; do you apply lubricant on front face of cylinder with conicals loaded, to prevent chain fire from front side of cylinder?
    No, never. You lube the lube grooves of the bullet. Whatever you slather on the face of the cylinder won’t usually last long from what others seem to say.

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onty View Post
    How important is HB (hollow base) boolit design for Ruger Old Army, and Remington and Colt system muzzle loading revolvers?

    Another question; do you apply lubricant on front face of cylinder with conicals loaded, to prevent chain fire from front side of cylinder?
    Not important at all.


    I never apply lube to the face of the cylinder. It gets blown away by the first shot. I do use a thin cookie made by pouring melted beeswax and olive oil over one or two plies of paper towel. Punch out the cookies and load them over the powder, under the bullet. The lube on the bullet prevents leading, the lube cookie softens fouling.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hera are 3 proposals, the difference is in nose shape. Please be aware that these boolits are intended for Ruger Old Army:

    - Solid base (SB) about 263gr
    - Hollow base (HB) about 230gr
    - Main dia as cast .454"
    - .450" dia reduced base for centering in cylinder
    - Meplat .340" dia



    I am assuming that bullets will be resized and lubed before loading.

    Regarding HB, since Minie bullets and WC-HB 38 Special have it, and later one is favorite for bullseye competition, hope that HB should help accuracy on this boolit too.

    As for 2 grooves design, from what I found about lead bullet designs, multi-groove design is usually considered as a better design, and gives better accuracy. Grooves are designed so 1,5mm wide O-ring https://www.mcmaster.com/o-rings/oil...width~1-500mm/ could be used. This will provide a good seal to prevent chain fire, and also help for a better friction between bullet and cylinder, to reduce bullet “walking” due the recoil.

    Regarding bullet nose skirt design, shown are 3 versions; round 2 (side angle) secant, double cone and cone/round.

    As for bullet nose cone designs, it has 5 included angle to mach forcing cone on Ruger revolvers. Idea is to create a maximum contact surface between bullet and barrel, minimizing bullet deformation in case of slight misalignment between bullet and barrel. I learned this from 44man (thank you Sir), he designed some very accurate boolits for Ruger revolvers using this feature.

    I am thinking about Cramer style mold, with two set of pins: hollow base (HB) and solid base (SB). If there is interest for solid base (SB) only, I am open for that possibility also.

    I already contacted Miha from MP-MOLDS https://www.mp-molds.com/ , he is open for this idea. Hope he will have some time and let us know what he thinks about these proposals

    Your comments and suggestion will be appreciated.
    Last edited by Onty; 04-07-2020 at 02:00 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub
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    I love the O-ring idea, but...can you get them cheap enough to make it worth it? I suppose in black powder, you never shoot hundreds of rounds at a time, so maybe the cost wouldn't be so bad.

    I have gone to one of the 45LC cylinders for my ROA. Using Trail Boss powder and a Lee 200 grain slug, the gun has new life for me. While not a "true" 45LC in that you can't load it hot, it is still a lot of fun. I've shot Scholfield rounds in it as well. And round ball, and bird shot snake loads. The cylinder just re-kindled my love of the firearm.

    Chris

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Check out Eras Gone moulds. The Kerr bullet is for 44 cal revolvers but might give you some ideas for Tom @ Accurate to cut.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    A lead bullet seals well. I’ve shot a bunch of different things out of my ROA and did find one bullet design that would walk out. None of the others have and I use stronger charges (weighed 33 grns of 3F Olde E in the NMA and weighed 38 grns in the ROA). I can’t say why the one often did, maybe it was under sized a hair.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris S View Post
    I love the O-ring idea, but...can you get them cheap enough to make it worth it? I suppose in black powder, you never shoot hundreds of rounds at a time, so maybe the cost wouldn't be so bad.

    I have gone to one of the 45LC cylinders for my ROA. Using Trail Boss powder and a Lee 200 grain slug, the gun has new life for me. While not a "true" 45LC in that you can't load it hot, it is still a lot of fun. I've shot Scholfield rounds in it as well. And round ball, and bird shot snake loads. The cylinder just re-kindled my love of the firearm.

    Chris
    McMaster-Carr:
    P/N 9262K631
    Oil-Resistant Buna-N O-Ring
    1.5 mm Wide, 8.5 mm ID, 11.5 mm OD
    $6.54 per pack of 100
    https://www.mcmaster.com/9262k631

    Since McMaster was always considered as a good "one stop shop" for lot of things, but not a bargain one, I guess if you shop around you could get even a better deal.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Instead of the o ring, why not add a taller rounded driving band in its place?

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I have only shot .457" round balls in mine. Won't .452" boolits walk out or chain fire?
    NRA Life
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I believe the ROA chambers run 0.453”. Ive understood that one wants their conical to drop out at least 0.454”, which is what my next mold will be set at instead of 0.456” as I thought the Lee 220 RN dropped at.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    In My Cowboy Shooting Days, there was a Shooter that sold Bear Creek Bullets at most of the Shoots in SoCal.
    He used the .452cal 200gr RNFP in His ROA's. I guess the frame/loading lever were strong enough. No wad or extra lube. But then he was only shooting at steel plates of 16" x 16" at 20ft.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Instead of the o ring, why not add a taller rounded driving band in its place?
    O-ring is shown just as an option.

    From what I found, ROA cylinders have chambers .452" dia. So, idea is to have boolits as cast .454" dia, maybe .455", and size/lube on .001-.002" above chamber dia.

    As for taller rounded driving bands you mentioned, here is proposal:



    Rebated base .448" dia will remain.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onty View Post
    O-ring is shown just as an option.

    From what I found, ROA cylinders have chambers .452" dia. So, idea is to have boolits as cast .454" dia, maybe .455", and size/lube on .001-.002" above chamber dia.

    As for taller rounded driving bands you mentioned, here is proposal:



    Rebated base .448" dia will remain.
    Here’s my 195 grn bullet design:

    http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-195C-D.png

    Things I’ll be modifying is to lengthen the base that easily inserts into the chamber. Not that I have to be really careful but I’ve wasted a few with them tilting while loading. Now I want more base.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I have no experience, but it seems to me one of the reason with conicals not shooting well in the old army is not getting them started straight. The same problem muzzleloaders can have. The advantage a muzzleloader has is a chamfered muzzle crown, which the old army has a sharp edged cylinder. My own thinking is that you need something that will self center, which is why a ball shoots so good. The O ring idea could work, but it seems to me that you could do the same thing with the soft lead and save the money. Keep the hollow base, and keep the rebated section, but replace that lube groove with a rounded or tapered drive band. Something as large as .457" should start as easy as a ball since the bearing surface is so small. That should center the back half, but the front half is still loose. I kind of like your tapered nose idea, but I think it would work better if the taper was backwards.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check