Electrician advice needed

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions.

[Mal Paso]

Would there be problem running 12-3 wg. That would allow two 20 amp circuits, but not sure if using the same neutral and ground is okay or not, hopefully a real electrician will chime in on that.

Line Loss. At that distance the resistance of the wire creates voltage drop and that determines the wire size.

[lightman]

My Southwire voltage drop calculator says you need #4 in order to keep the voltage drop under 3%. If you were not running a tool with a motor I wouldn't worry too much about staying under 3% voltage drop. You might get by with the next smaller size, #6.

I have used the Southwire app a lot and found it to be accurate. Its based on the current NEC tables.

To do this right you are looking at a chunck of money. If finances will allow I would bury some 1/0-3 underground service wire and terminate it in a panel. It depends on how much you plan to use your shop and what else you plan to run.

I just looked back at all of the post and see where you posted that money is tight. But don't skimp too much on wire size or you will damage your tools.

[Ickisrulz]

Would there be problem running 12-3 wg. That would allow two 20 amp circuits, but not sure if using the same neutral and ground is okay or not, hopefully a real electrician will chime in on that.

If you are wiring two circuits, you need a sub-panel.

[Tripplebeards]

I wired my whole garage years ago when I had it built. It’s not very hard to do. You just have to dig a trench 3 feet deep from your outlet box to your garage. Then get a piece of 2 inch PVC pipe and run it from the ground from one side to the other. That way you can pull your wire through it and it doesn’t get wet and if you ever want to change it out to 220 well change the wire you can just pull it through again. Pretty fun project. My garage is still there and it didn’t burn down so Musta did a good job.

[willowbend]

Drag the shed closer to the house.. lol

[bangerjim]

I ran 240vac to my back shop...........almost 250 feet. Put a sub-panel in at the pool pump and ran 8 gauge stranded in 1" sch 40 PVC around the yard to the shop. The a breaker/disconnect box in the shop just for safety and convenience.

Now when I have 4ea) 2x40W tube florescent lights on and start any tool in the shop and the lights don't even flicker!!!!! And these are 20-25A (in-rush) tools.

Go big! It will cost you a lot more up front, but you will never regret a heavy permanent hook-up. Forget the "extension cord" idea.

Remember to either bury or paint the white PVC pipe.....or the sun will rot it over time. Or use the much more costly CPVC gray electrical conduit.

[bangerjim]

Would there be problem running 12-3 wg. That would allow two 20 amp circuits, but not sure if using the same neutral and ground is okay or not, hopefully a real electrician will chime in on that.

If you want to meet code, you should have separate circuits. That's 2 black, two white, and two green. No "doubling up" allowed in most places (even though white and green land in the same place in the panel!)

[djryan13]

Ha! I just got an email from them saying they have reduced copper wire prices due to this CV thing... guessing demand is down with cities halting some construction.

Good time to buy!

Edit: if not burying, you need to use SOOW cord if you can get one big enough to handle that voltage drop.

Not sure about your budget, but I would buy the appropriate size wire to keep working and then buy the conduit as money is available and bury it. A hot and a neutral of equal size and I believe you can use a smaller ground wire. My last cable purchase was from Wire and Cable your way.

[jimlj]

I am an electrician. Reading this thread you have been given a few bits of good advice, but most of the rest is bad or dangerous. The internet is not the place to get electrical advise, especially from people who (mostly) don't know. Just because the garage didn't burn down doesn't mean it was done right or safe. I once worked on a ranch where the owner strung 2 strands of barbed wire overhead to get lights to his barn. The barn didn't burn down but it certainly wasn't right or safe.

I wouldn't recommend a 250' cord. 250' of NM-B romex laying on the ground is a bad choice. UF-B romex is sunlight RESISTANT, but will degrade over a few years time, and it is also a bad choice to lay on the ground. A 250' cord is a pain to roll up, and 250' of romex is plain ignorant to try to roll up.

In order to get good advice, call a competent electrician in your area who can actually see what you are trying to do, and knows the LOCAL and national codes.

One bit of advice I'll give even though I can't look at your job, what ever you decide, go with bigger wire or generator than you think you will ever need because you likely will.

[Lloyd Smale]

with 12 3 your can split your load but you still have the voltage drop to deal with. That and you will need a 220 breaker to power it and they are more expensive. Like I said you wouldn't dump a bunch of powder in a case without looking at loading manual. Your code book is your loading manual. Those wire sizes in it for your purpose are there for good reason. I doubt too if you would go on an electricians fourm and ask advice on running your 270 up past book levels. Not if your sane anyway.

[KenH]

LIke has been said, it's amazing now much bad advice you're getting about size of wire based on amp load. In this case, amps don't matter, voltage drop is the thing to worry about. Any wire size the doesn't drop too much voltage will more than carry required amps. While it would be nice to have only 3% voltage drop, you can "get by" with 5% even with that saw motor. Even 10% would still give you around 110vac if starting with 120 volts at source.

By all means do bury the wire, and do put in PVC pipe. The pipe isn't going to cost much, and won't keep wire dry but will provide some protection to physical damage.

[C.F.Plinker]

It looks like the motor is about a 1 Hp motor based on a full load current of 15 amps. It will probably draw between 90 and 100 amps when it starts. Have someone make the voltage drop calculations for both starting and running. You may need to upsize the conductor in order to get the motor to start with that long (250') of a conductor run. They will probably need the rated voltage, nameplate current, and kva code from the motor nameplate for the calculation.

[Tripplebeards]

Lol... My buddies a licensed electrician and he inspected my work. My uncle is also the fire marshal and came over to inspect before my electrician did. I was told I was at code. The most of local electricians here act like it’s criminal to do your own work. IMO it’s because they’re losing money by people doing it their own work since Menards opened decades ago and selling all the parts to the general public to do so. Guess I should’ve got my license and missed my calling.

I was completely kidding when I said my garage didn’t burn down yet. I do all my own plumbing to...and it’s not a crime.lol


It’s the same speculation when somebody says that because you reload your own ammo you’re to harm yourself and your going to blow up your gun. We all know the answer to that one. A lot of common knowledge and pride in your work goes a long way. You can do anything if you put your mind to it and use common sense.

Just do your research and some homework before you just run a cord out there.

[frkelly74]

That is a long run for sure and will be expensive to do it correctly/ safely. If it were me I would go the portable generator route. You can get them pretty cheap at times and I know that the 5500 watt easily runs a Lee 10 lb pot and a light, or a table saw and a light. They are 240 volt capable and you can do a lot with them with a great deal of flexibility. Point is,you can do what you want to do with a temporary set up and also be prepared for when the power goes off when it storms.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the input. I'll ponder it some more.

[sharps4590]

You better ponder it a lot from most of what you've been told on here. jimlj is right. I retired after 42 years as an electrician with 35 being self employed as a contractor. NEC states that at 150 ft. you go up one wire size for the load. That's the minimum. Using #12 at 250 ft. is a fools errand. It will run some stuff but there will be a price to pay in how hard it is on tools, especially motors. The suggestions for #8 copper or #6 USE-2 Alum. are the best suggestions you've had for wire size and unless you live where the soil is mostly soil or sand, put it in pipe. For direct burial 2 ft. is the NEC requirement and 18 inches deep if in conduit. 12 inches isn't deep enough and is a clear and certain code violation You can legally use an extension and it should be a rubber cord. Price #10 or #8 SOW, SOWW, etc. and the required cord ends and post back if you want to use an extension cord. You can use romex but, you will regret it before long.

As has been mentioned, household electrical wiring isn't difficult nor beyond the ability of homeowners who are fairly handy. Just do it right and if you don't know how to do it correctly...and most don't...call someone who does and have them help you or, call a licensed and insured electrician.

[lightman]

LIke has been said, it's amazing now much bad advice you're getting about size of wire based on amp load. In this case, amps don't matter, voltage drop is the thing to worry about. Any wire size the doesn't drop too much voltage will more than carry required amps. While it would be nice to have only 3% voltage drop, you can "get by" with 5% even with that saw motor. Even 10% would still give you around 110vac if starting with 120 volts at source.

By all means do bury the wire, and do put in PVC pipe. The pipe isn't going to cost much, and won't keep wire dry but will provide some protection to physical damage.

I beg to disagree. The amp load at the end of the run is a major part of the voltage drop formula.

[Big Tom]

Here is an online calculator that tells (estimates) what your voltage be at the end:
https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html

[Bantou]

Bazoo, don’t you have a friend that is a Lineman? If he has access to a scrap bin he should be able to get you all the wire you need. It might take a while to get 250 of underground wire and you will probably have to splice it a few times but it would be free.


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