Weekend with daughter, 221 Fireball and cast boolits. And a little humor.

[dimaprok]

I had a chance to go out and shoot few days ago and I set a pretty low goal, shoot at least 3/4" group at 50 yards as previous attempts shooting with Lee 55gr was disaster, I couldn't keep the shoots on paper. Inspired by OP results I got a sample of same bullet, the powder coat had usual marks from the mesh basket, but I wanted to see if it had potential. Conventional wisdom said you need lighter bullet for 1 in 14 twist rate, but if it worked in his gun than there is a good chance it should in mine.

PC bullets with homemade gas checks were around 60.4gr +/- .1gr. I loaded 2400 powder in a string of 12.3, 12.5, 12.7 and 12.9gr in groups of 3. I sorted bullets for each string as close as possible in weight. What surprised me was velocity was much higher than OP had, at 12.3gr I was already at 2563fps, ES13 SD 6.5 and this was best group. I am using Lab Radar to measure it. The rest of the groups opened up and SD went up also, but this is limited data.

Unfortunately I forgot to bring gun rest and shooting off rickety table with my coat as support was terrible so the groups can be better but right there I reached my goal of 1.5 MOA (very close) and that make me quite happy and excited! I know I can do better with a gun rest and I can also drop the charge even lower to see if I get better group.

At 12.7gr I was almost 2700 fps! If I recall correctly the OP velocity at same charge was little under 2500 fps, I went through the thread and can't find actual data.

My results are nowhere as good, but it's a huge step up for me and making me a believer that I can shoot 22 lead bullets accurately.

[charlie b]

Matt,

Have you looked into the Cast Bullet Assn postal matches?

https://castbulletassoc.org/postal-rules

From looking at their previous match results your daughter should do well.

[mattw]

Charlie, no I have not... was not aware. I will look into that. She really wants to compete, might get her started. I am also looking into ARA, would not be opposed to a decent rim fire. I have been hoarding 22lr SV & HV for 20 years... just in case.

[mattw]

At 12.7gr I was almost 2700 fps! If I recall correctly the OP velocity at same charge was little under 2500 fps, I went through the thread and can't find actual data.

My results are nowhere as good, but it's a huge step up for me and making me a believer that I can shoot 22 lead bullets accurately.

That is interesting... 12.7gr. of 2400 with the NOE 60gr. gave me a 20 shot average of 2560 shot across a few different days. Can you tell me more about your gun? I would love to know the difference. My barrel is a 23" 1:14 twist. We seat just to touch the lands with a PC bullet of alloy 94/3/3. No way to measure pressure, but bolt opens with ease, primers flat but not cratered. BTW, not bad shooting for load work up... not bad at all.

[dimaprok]

That is interesting... 12.7gr. of 2400 with the NOE 60gr. gave me a 20 shot average of 2560 shot across a few different days. Can you tell me more about your gun? I would love to know the difference. My barrel is a 23" 1:14 twist. We seat just to touch the lands with a PC bullet of alloy 94/3/3. No way to measure pressure, but bolt opens with ease, primers flat but not cratered. BTW, not bad shooting for load work up... not bad at all.

I am using Lab Radar to measure but I also still have my Pro Chrono, I'll see if I can set them up at the same time. How far do you normally setup your chronograph from the muzzle?
The alloy according to guy sent me [mix 5 lb pure, 9 Lb WW, 4.5 lb of Lino and a 3/4 Lb chunk of pewter. water dropped and got 17BHN] I didn't actually test hardness.

I have hornady bullet comparator but haven't actually measured where it touches the lands, I need to do that.

The rifle is stock Remington 700, 24" barrel and 1:14 twist rifling. The barrel is too thin for my liking. When 221Fb bug bit me 3 years ago I wanted one really bad but luck has it they all literally sold out right before my nose and only Remington was left for which I overpaid dearly but it has not disappointed, it's my most accurate gun and it's a beauty.

The primers were not flat even at 12.9gr. I was going to take picture and forgot. I am using RCBS Lite to drop charges and than verify on my Gem Pro 250 and trickle up if needed, they all were within .02 grain. One possible explanation that Lapua brass might have smaller volume and increased pressure.

I was planning to go out and do some more testing while the weather was still good but all fell through, hopefully I'll get another chance.

[charlie b]

Charlie, no I have not... was not aware. I will look into that. She really wants to compete, might get her started. I am also looking into ARA, would not be opposed to a decent rim fire. I have been hoarding 22lr SV & HV for 20 years... just in case.

I found them by accident when I was researching the accuracy of cast bullet loads a couple years ago. I haven't joined or participated because I am not consistent enough yet.

Interesting side note is that one of the postal competitors has the same rifle as mine.

Like many I started with .22 as a kid. I bought another .22 rifle a few years ago, but, just could not keep my interest like the CF rifles. I think it is a catch-22 (appropriate name in this case ). The less expensive rifles aren't accurate enough for me, and I don't want to spend the money on one that I know will be accurate.

[dimaprok]

I ran the data through Quickload and actually got pretty much exact what I was getting, calculated 2699fps at 12.7gr and actual avg, 2697fps. What scares me is that it's at 47.2K PSI which is over max 46.4k PSI and at 12.9gr produces 49k, I don't think it's enough to blow up the gun but pushing tiny lead bullet at this pressure... I am uncomfortable.

I am going to load some with IMR 4198. At 16gr (everything else same) it produces 38.9K PSI and estimated 2699 fps, fills 97.9% case capacity. Will try 15.1, 15.4, 15.7, 16, 16.3gr increments.

[mattw]

dimaprok, that is interesting... I have never used quickloads... I tend to work by feel and look. Does the bolt open hard, are the primers flat or cratered, are the case mouths sooted? Given basic expectations that I have learned with that rifle over the years, I find that hard to believe. Now it is a snug match chamber in a rifle with a trued action and a very thick barrel, I suppose it could be possible. It is odd that I am not hitting the velocity that you are. Is that a jacketed or cast bullet? The NOE has very little bearing bands and may contribute as well as the PC may contribute to the lower pressure and velocity?

That said, she had a horrible weekend with the rifle this weekend. Could barely pull together 1.5" groups. We are basically out of 2400, I thought I had 8 more pounds, so we started a ladder with N130 and I started way to low, the first loads barely made 2000fps and shot a 3" group. We ran out of time to work more of the ladder, but by the time they were hitting upper 2200's the groups were down to 1.5" 4198 worked very well for me with 52/53 match jacketed loads.

[dimaprok]

Quickloads is not 100% accurate for obvious reasons such as your rifle is different from mine and one batch of powder is different from next but I use it as guideline but can be be very fun as well. I can play with different powders and get an idea what to expect, like how much bullseye I can put in .308 or what will I get if I fill 221 with slow burning powder (you get unburned powder). With recent update, I now have Shooters World, some newer Hodgdon powders and I have NOE bullets as well. For example before I had Shooter World data I made up a ladder of 5 different charges with Blackout powder and 50gr jacketed soft point because the powder is similar to 1680 burn rate it should be suitable, well I just plugged in the data and discovered that my starting load of 15gr is at "magenta" color close to max at 40.2K and my highest load of 16.5gr is over pressure at 52.3k so now I have to pull upper load rounds and start lower.

I go by the same look and feel but when working with new powder that doesn't have load data, working blindly it helps a lot, take your N130 powder as perfect example. You can spend your entire outing and walk away disappointed because you're not even in ballpark with your loads or you can find out that according to QuickLoad you're safe with N130 even at 100% case capacity which is about 17gr 35.9k, this is why Nosler shows compressed data and also why you won't see high velocity either.


Nosler actually has N130 data https://load-data.nosler.com/load-da...gton-fireball/

Regarding your questions about my high velocity I was shooting NOE 60gr (same bullet as yours) PC and gas checked and yes I noticed in my other 30 cal cartridge I am getting about 100fps more with lead bullets that are a bit heavier than jacketed bullets with exact same powder charge. With lighter bullet the difference might be even greater. There is a remote possibility that LabRadar vs traditional Chrono could be off.