Weekend with daughter, 221 Fireball and cast boolits. And a little humor.

[mattw]

I love my 221 Fireball, it is a 23" full bull McGowan SS barrel on a 40XBR action with Jewell 1.5 oz trigger and B&L 4000 series 6.5x24 scope. I have owned this gun for 20 or so years and it is my goto when I need to shoot a good group. Alex has began to understand my love of this rifle as well. Last fall she asked why we don't cast for my bench guns, I explained the difference between match grade and cast bullets and told her what it would take to basically come up with match grade cast bullets... to my surprise she was interested in the effort. So, I acquired a couple of moulds and we were all set.

The mould we are working with is the NOE-55-FN 3C, it drops right around 60 grains with 94-3-3 alloy. Gas checked and PC'ed it produces groups in 61.4 - 61.5 and 61.6 - 61.7 in the largest numbers. Until I can up production of good bullets we are working with .2gr. weight groups. The bullets are sized and checked, PC'ed and sized again to .2251'ish.

I made several hundred and culled to 213 bullets. Following is the distribution:
61.3gr & down = 18
61.4 - 61.5 = 29
61.6 - 61.7 = 59
61.8 - 61.9 = 80
62.0 - 62.1 = 20
62.2 & up = 7

I have been working with the 61.8 - 61.9 grain range. If I could get 1000 made, I would sort by .1 grains and make the groups even better.



Now this is learning for me as well, as I said before my bench guns have never seen cast bullets!
We started with 12.5 grains of 2400. I expanded slightly with an NOE expander and they seated very well. The first 3 groups were not good, 2+ inches at 100 yards, with the last group falling in at about 1.5 inches. The chronograph told me the first 2 groups had high extreme spreads of around 110 fps and SD of around 37... no wonder they would not shoot. Back to the drawing board, the velocity was a little low in the low 2500's. I bumped up to 12.7 grains and then it dawned on me that I really needed a mild crimp, never needed with jacketed bullets. Back out back and she fired another group. This rifle loves 2 foulers before your first group, unless the barrel is already warm.

She fired her first fouler and could not find it on the target, she was getting concerned because that rifle never misses paper. I could see what happened but it took her a while to figure out... That she had commited CHRONOCIDE!



So, good excuse for a new chronograph that now has bluetooth and will upload results for processing later! Midway had the ProChrono DLX on sale for a good price, ordered within 10 minutes, could not imagine not having one on hand.

Her last group of the day is below. Showing 1 fouler, 4 in one hole and she rushed the last one and pulled it down and out. The barrel after 30 shots cleaned with 4 wet patches with 50/50 kroil and ProShot and 1 dry patch. I think it came cleaner than when shooting jacketed bullets. I was worried about lead in that barrel. I even broke out brand new weighed brass for this event, so they were being fireformed to boot. My brass is all 1 weight per box of 50 and I have 7 or 8 boxes that all weigh the same with 3 foulers per box.



Next we will work with the Lyman 225462 in the Fireball and likely will make the same efforts with my 222 Mag. benchgun.

[onelight]

What a great post !
Bless her heart nailed her first crono.

[charlie b]

Nice work!

Makes me want to use cast in my .223 bolt gun. Nice shooting too.

I had not thought of crimp before either. Makes me think I should try it, especially in the gallery loads for the .308.

[mattw]

Charlie, a light crimp made all the difference in the load. It is so against my nature to crimp rounds for my bench guns, but would not think twice about crimping 22 TCM cast or 30-30 cast. The SD and ES fell immediately and the groups really tightened up. She is becoming a good shot behind a bench gun, learning breath control, trigger feel (can now put her finger on a 1.5oz trigger with out setting it off, wind doping and learning to be repetitious.

[Texas by God]

You have convinced me to try crimping my next 22-250 cast loads. By the way, does your Barrel have a 14-inch twist?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[mattw]

My barrel is a 14 twist. It was made and fitted by Harry McGowen and was designed for 52-55 grain bullets. The 1400 match is hands down the best bullet in this gun, only found 1 60gr. that would shoot and that is the Sierra 60gr. softpoint flat base, and it is not great. I was not sure what this design would actually be able to do in this gun, I was really shocked. Many 60gr. bullets hit sideways at 100 yards. I also own a McGowen barreled 222 Mag that is an amazing tack driver. He also barreled a 40XBR for me in 6mmx284, 30 inch full bull tube on that one. That rifle netted me a prairie dog and 865 yards, confirmed by my spotter and laser range finder to a target held at hit point. 1 shot to dope the wind and one shot to kill.

Harry was a very interesting fella, opinionated, highly skilled and worked at his own pace. I consider myself very fortunate to own several examples of his work. He lived about 1.5 hours from my home, saw him fairly often. He would take my example round and cut the chamber to match that round to a T, seated just into the lands and they are dead on.

[rking22]

Looks interesting, and wonderful that she wanted the challenge! She will do quite well in life. You know you really should mount the crony for her, after all it was her first! Could have a presentation ceremony and everything

[charlie b]

Thanks Matt. I had considered crimping my subsonic .308 loads so may try it on my regular cast loads too.

[mattw]

Gotta throw out an update. I picked up the ProChrono DLX at Midway, shipping was quick and the price was really good.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020438152?pid=988434

The best part... it talks bluetooth and makes some very good reports. You can get a basic text summary, a full csv or this wonderful summary. I put all of my chrono data in a google sheet, I make a caliber specific page and have sub-sheets for each bullet weight cast and jacketed.

[303Guy]

I've been interested in the 221 ever since a got my hornet and found the chamber oversize and rough (presumably from cleaning out rust damage). It would fit the action.

A curious observation I made after my brand new unused die set disappeared and I had to find another way to load for the oversize chamber. Instead of sizing the neck, I instead 'glued' the bullet in place with molten 'waxy-lube'. I then switched to a paper hand towel cup soaked in waxy-lube after bullet seating. This held the bullet concentrically. This arrangement held the bullet firmly enough to not move in the magazine but with some effort could be pulled out by finger. Accuracy is very good.

But the curious thing is that this gun with this loading method shoots Hornady 63gr spire points very accurately as far as one can shoot. This with a 16 twist.

I know want an even smaller and lighter gun that at least equals the hornet performance in a shorter barrel so the 221 comes to mind. My hornet performance is 2740fps with 55gr bullets and 2680 fps with 63gr bullets in its 24 inch barrel. The 221 will do that in a 15 inch barrel I'm sure. With a suppressor.

[dimaprok]

Very interesting. I have 221 FB Remington 700 and it's very accurate with jacketed bullets. I've tried cast bullets, I used load data from magazine article I found online. I've tried Lee 55gr gas checked and powder coated sized to .224 since that's what manual said (later I learned that .225 or bigger is prefered). I though crimping was a no-no for cast bullets. Anyway my results were horrible, I couldn't get all shots on paper at 50 yards. Another time I setup target at 30 yards and got a few inch group with 4198, I kind of gave up since jacketed bulk is very cheap, I have actually a bunch that I cast one day (like 600) to test gas checks, I want to give it another shot. My question is, I noticed in the pictures powder coat looks nice, did you shake and transfer them with tweezers? It's bad enough when I tried with 30 cal I can't picture doing this for 22! One accidental bump and they all fall! I always wondered if could get away with BLL or 45-45-10 tumble lube, I don't mind keeping velocity down if I can avoid leading and simplify lubing.

[mattw]

I am going for factory velocity. I shake and bake, transfer with tweezers and stand the up one at a time. I am going for match grade results in a match grade rifle, thus each bullet is weighed and sorted. The crimp is very light and is only there for 2 reasons, allow the brass into a match chamber and to provide a more uniform pressure required before the bullet leaves the case. My results are still better with Berger match 52's or Sierra match 52 or 53 grain bullets.

[dimaprok]

I just got a sample of these bullets and eager to load them, they are powder coated and I put on my own 22 gas check on it. Lapua brass, remaining Rem 7 1/2 primers and the rest what I have is CCI 400. Have 2400 powder. You mentioned 12.7gr load, was that the load that got 4 in one hole in pic you posted? Is that what you settled on? Obviously I'll do my load development just want a good starting point. Also are you seating in to the lands? Do you have report on 62gr bullet like one you posted above? Mine are about 60.4gr +/- .1gr If could get even 1.5 MOA I'll be happy. My experience with Lee 55gr was extremely horrible. I know the problem is not the gun, it shoots jacketed very well and you confirmed 1:14 twist works so I have hopes. I suspect in my earlier testing sizing .224 could have been a problem. I expanded my neck with NOE .222 plug, it steps up to .226 but I didn't go there, I experienced no shaving while sitting but I chamfered the neck. I was thinking that .222 might be too small as there is normally a spring back (shrink) and to make my own plug in .223. What do you think? For now I am just going to seat 1.830" as max length.

[Greg S]

Following with interest. I have a 221 and a hornet and need to start loading for the 221.

[mattw]

What do I think... that is a dangerous question! First off... Lapua brass, I am jealous. I never could get my hands on true match brass. I bought 3k cases years ago and prepped every one of them, then weight sorted the cases to the level of .1 grains. Sold the ends of the bell curve and kept the brass by the tenth.

I have never used anything but 7 1/2 primers, early on others were just not as tight. At one point, I shot twice a week and could turn in page after page of 1 hole groups. Now, between my eyes, age and less time to shoot most are 4 in 1 out. That bullet design allows for the bullet to be seated with the front driving band just kissing the lands, can feel it in the bolt at the end of the stroke, and that seems to be the most accurate way to shoot them.

12.7 grains of 2500 averaged 2489 across 20 shots. The standard deviation was 41 FPS, including cold barrel fouler group. My OAL was 1.831", bullets were .2252 to start with and I expand with an NOE plug as well but I do use both steps. I would suggest using both steps with your gun as well and a very slight crimp. My plug is .2231x.2260.

I have tried other cast designs, including the Lyman 225438 (44gr RN), Lyman 225462 (57gr RN) and NOE 225-45-WFN. The 225462 is a Guy Loverin design and is nearly driving band to the formed nose. This shot the worst of any of them. I suspect that the large bearing surface has a lot to do with that, it does not get stable and once in a while hits the target sideways. If I drop the velocity some it gets better. I suspect that may be what is going on with the Lee, honestly I do not buy Lee moulds unless they have something I want that nobody else offers. I think the NATO (small diameter nose) design is the key.

I have used 4227, H110 Data (commercial powder 12% faster), Unique, 4198, HS7 and a few others in the gun over the years. 2400 has just held the edge in the heavier bullets. I might have 15 to 17 thousand rounds thru this gun in the last 20 years. The throat is still in very good condition and it bore scopes well. My default Sierra 1400 loads are still very 1 hole able at this time. As I said, 23" full bull, if I need to someday I can set the barrel back and rechamber it and will not hurt the performance at all. Going from .2 grain weight groups to .1 grain really made an improvement in the groups as well. It has been a lot of work this summer, but I was tired of hearing that cast can't be as accurate. I will likely try this with my 222 Mag next year, I suspect it will be more of a challenge, the 221 FB is a very forgiving and docile caliber... the 222 Mag, not so much.

[charlie b]

Thanks for the description of your trials and especially errors. Seems to be common for some barrels to only like certain bullets, especially at the accuracy level you pursue.

[35remington]

Since accuracy is the goal, I would throttle down to the 1800-2000 fps range and give that a go.

[mattw]

I have gone low, the heavy cast does not work. I have laddered unique and other faster powders. I will not down load h110 or 4227 and 2400 did not work well downloaded. Thousands of rounds through it and it just does not want to go slow, cast or jacketed. Been working with 45 grain cast gc bullets, never got wfn's to work from 1100 to 2650 fps. Best managed 1.5 inches excluding 1 flyer each. She is pretty touchy. My xp100 is much more forgiving but never as tight on the best end.

[35remington]

I think you may be running into stability problems with the slow twist. Try something shorter like the 225415 at the 1800-2000 fps range. As is I think you are running into pressure/velocity limitations of cast in the 2600 fps range. Ultimately this will be an accuracy limitation as well.

Sort of a fine line to walk along. I have a 1-14 K Hornet and am well aware of its dislike for the longer bullets at 2000 fps and below. The 225415 despite the propaganda actually casts around 50 grains and is notably shorter than most of the 55 grain designs.

I have no fears downloading 4227 but would agree doing so with H110 or 296 is chancy.

The fast pistol/shotgun powders are generally a waste of time except with short bullets and low velocity.

[mattw]

Been on the lookout for the 225415, one of the few 22's I do not have.