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Thread: Cast ZINC bullets for magnum and rifle loads

  1. #41
    Boolit Master redhawk0's Avatar
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    Do you preheat your brass molds? Using what method if you do?

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhawk0 View Post
    Do you preheat your brass molds? Using what method if you do?

    redhawk
    Due to the immens thermal capacity of zinc that's not necessary, most of the time you have to wait for the zinc to solidify if your not using multiple molds.

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    Last edited by davidh0302; 03-30-2020 at 09:26 AM.

  3. #43
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    if your having to wait a long time for the zinc to solidify, isn't your pot too hot?
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    if your having to wait a long time for the zinc to solidify, isn't your pot too hot?
    It's not due to unnecessarily high temp of the pot.
    For some time I cast with a normal Lee Pro 4-20 pot that had just barely enough power to melt the zinc (when temperatures got lower in autumn and winter it wasn't able to melt the zinc anymore) and still the aluminium molds I used at that time took a lot of time to dissipate enough heat to let the bullets solidify.
    I even used a fan to cool the molds faster, but the air flow obviously cooled the Lee pot which then in turn did not have enough power to keep the zinc liquid.
    It's due to the thermal capacity of zinc in combination with the necessarily higher casting temperatures.
    The wear problem of aluminum molds aside, they don't have enough mass and thermal capacity to absorb (or surface area to dissipate) the heat the zinc bullet needs loose by heat transfer in order to solidify. Brass molds have more mass and more thermal capacity, so they work better for that purpose.

    That's just my try on a scientific explanation for the phenomenons I experienced when casting zinc bullets.

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  5. #45
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    That was my next question (or maybe you already answered it in an earlier post); what temperature are you running the pot?

    I was under the impression (just from what I heard, NOT actual experience so I could be totally wrong) that zinc wouldn't fill out a bullet mold. But your bullets sure look nice, so I guess I'm wrong about that?

  6. #46
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    If I ever wanted to try this, I would look at something like a Loverin bullet that has narrower driving bands...maybe a custom mold with fewer driving bands. That should reduce the force to size bullets. A lot of bearing surface is not needed to keep such a hard alloy from "stripping" due to the rotational forces of rifling twist. I would also make up a HD sprue plate with a smaller diameter sprue holes.

    I have too many other projects right now. It would be interesting to see how a 158 gr large HP .38 cal mold would perform on coyotes in a .357 Mag rifle. Cast weight would be 100 gr. and velocity should be around 2000-2100 fps using 4227. That would yield about the same trajectory as a .22 Mag with over double the energy. Might be good to 150 yards. A zoollet that "blows up" would be acceptable for critter control but it may just punch through with no deformation. Not much of an issue if having a wounded animal crawl off to die is acceptable...or even preferred..no carcass to dispose of.

    But Zn needs to be almost free. In my case, with 3000 lb of alloy, there is no reason to experiment unless Zn offers an advantage. Unless of course they outlaw Pb.
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  7. #47
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    The folks that mine lead from the shooting ranges are cringing from all this zinc casting talk.
    Hopefully the zinc bullets are being shot elsewhere

  8. #48
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    I wonder if there is something like "heavy walled zinc tubing" out there. I would like to try swaging lead cored zinc bullets. Not like normal jacketed bullets but thicker walls. Maybe get some weight and expansion. But I lack the ability to extrude zinc tubing.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    The folks that mine lead from the shooting ranges are cringing from all this zinc casting talk.
    Hopefully the zinc bullets are being shot elsewhere
    This is a good question.

    David, did you have any issues with cross-contamination? Is it necessary to use separate pots for lead and zinc?

    I am very interested in trying to cast zinc. Where I live, wheel weights are mixed, mostly lead and some zinc and iron. Do you think it would be safe to melt them all together at lower temperature and then separate zinc weights from molten lead?


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  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    BC is function of shape, not weight. Stability could be effected but with higher fps, probably not a worry. Zinc is somewhat self lubricating. Sizing greater than groove will cause pressure spikes. Like Cu solids, slightly over bore is best.
    Whatever!

  11. #51
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    I think BC is the sum of all the features that affect trajectory so all else being equal , MV and bullet (same mold) shape a heavier bullet will have a higher BC than the lighter , it will shoot farther in the same time span.
    Unless I don't understand it . The older I get , the less I know.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrounge View Post
    Possibly off-topic, here in Oklahoma, last I checked, the law requires all bullets to be at least 60% lead. Zinc being harder than lead, they might be considered armor-piercing "zoolits."
    I couldn't find any such requirement in the current OK hunting regs. Just the lone stipulation "Rifles: Centerfire rifles firing at least a 55-grain weight soft-nosed or hollow-point bullet."

    The hollow point comment would tell me that much of the Barnes line of non-lead bullets (TSX, TTSX, LRX .etc) are legal. A hollow pointed zinc bullet seems legal as well. Sounds like they just don't want people using FMJ ball ammo.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barut View Post
    This is a good question.

    David, did you have any issues with cross-contamination? Is it necessary to use separate pots for lead and zinc?

    I am very interested in trying to cast zinc. Where I live, wheel weights are mixed, mostly lead and some zinc and iron. Do you think it would be safe to melt them all together at lower temperature and then separate zinc weights from molten lead?


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    I sort the wheel weight I get from the auto repair shop before I melt them. In Germany they are primarily made of zinc, there are some iron wheel weight in the mix, and very very few lead wheel weights.
    I never had a problem with contamination. I smelt the sorted wheel weight in a a big old stainless cooking pot over a 10kW propane stove. I skim off all the iron clips an stuff like that and flux with paraffin wax. Then I cast the zinc into muffin ingots before I melt those in my casting furnace.
    I do the casting into ingots with a ladle, so lead wo be left on the bottom of the pot. Iron floats on top.
    I even tried mixing zinc and lead to create a harder alloy, but at temperatures above the melting point of zinc, they just seem to separate, with and without fluxing...
    Even after Stein stirring, the metals would separate while pouring into the muffin mold. There was a visible line throughcthe muffin, lead on the bottom and zinc on top.

    When I say I was smelting the zinc or lead, I mean my dad, because he's the one doing the sorting an casting in ingots.


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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidh0302 View Post
    I sort the wheel weight I get from the auto repair shop before I melt them. In Germany they are primarily made of zinc, there are some iron wheel weight in the mix, and very very few lead wheel weights.
    I never had a problem with contamination. I smelt the sorted wheel weight in a a big old stainless cooking pot over a 10kW propane stove. I skim off all the iron clips an stuff like that and flux with paraffin wax. Then I cast the zinc into muffin ingots before I melt those in my casting furnace.
    I do the casting into ingots with a ladle, so lead wo be left on the bottom of the pot. Iron floats on top.
    I even tried mixing zinc and lead to create a harder alloy, but at temperatures above the melting point of zinc, they just seem to separate, with and without fluxing...
    Even after Stein stirring, the metals would separate while pouring into the muffin mold. There was a visible line throughcthe muffin, lead on the bottom and zinc on top.

    When I say I was smelting the zinc or lead, I mean my dad, because he's the one doing the sorting an casting in ingots.


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    I do use to different pots. A Lyman Mag 25 for lead, and my special furnace for zinc.
    As we all know at normal "lead casting-temperatures" zinc in your lead results in a rather mushy consistency. (I think if you would heat up your lead melting pot to above the melting point of zinc, the two would separate perfectly, I think the mushiness is a result of not being able to completely melt the zinc mix in the lead)
    So it makes sense to keep them separated.
    Besides the problem of corrosion, wich commands special measures regarding the melting pot material etc anyway.


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    Last edited by davidh0302; 03-31-2020 at 08:06 AM.

  15. #55
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    I present you the exploits of my zinc casting session. Allready lube (only to facilitate sizing) and sized.

    44 RNFP sized to .430 zinc 165gr https://www.mp-molds.com/product/432...as-check-mold/
    308 RNHP and RNFP sized to. 309
    zinc 105,5 gr and 108 gr
    bought by group buy directly from MP-Molds

    223 RNFP sized to .224 zinc 47 gr
    https://www.mp-molds.com/product/mp-...gc-nato-6-cav/

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  16. #56
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    Question to those who are actually casting Zink Rifle Boolits:

    (1) Where are you seeing Maximum Velocity compared to Wheel Weight Alloys air cooled.

    (2) Are Zink Rifle Boolits performing (no leading higher velocities) better than Water Dropped Cast Wheel Weight?

    (3) Compared to a Factory .30 caliber bullet (say 150 gr to 175 grain) are Zink cast Boolits accuracy (not as good) (Same) (Better)?
    Last edited by MUSTANG; 04-01-2020 at 05:01 PM.
    Mustang

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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    The folks that mine lead from the shooting ranges are cringing from all this zinc casting talk.
    Hopefully the zinc bullets are being shot elsewhere
    That’s just what I’ve been thinking about. I count on range scrap for all my lead. If zinc starts getting used, that will sure screw things up.

  18. #58
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    As you melt range scrap if you keep your pots cool enough the zinc should all float to be skimmed off. We went though the same in the early days of zinc wheel weights .
    When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.

  19. #59
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Years ago I wanted to try zinc boolits for my Brit. The idea being that it needs a decent size boolit so zinc being lighter and stronger would give me fit, strength and high velocity. Well, I never got that far so it's great seeing someone actually doing what I had wanted to do. And of course, now I know it works so I might just give it a try sometime.

    I do have a slight problem though - in the last few years, zinc dust has been making me ill. I get all the sinc flu symptoms even from a small dose of dust so I will have to be careful with dust masks and ventilation.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Years ago I wanted to try zinc boolits for my Brit. The idea being that it needs a decent size boolit so zinc being lighter and stronger would give me fit, strength and high velocity. Well, I never got that far so it's great seeing someone actually doing what I had wanted to do. And of course, now I know it works so I might just give it a try sometime.

    I do have a slight problem though - in the last few years, zinc dust has been making me ill. I get all the sinc flu symptoms even from a small dose of dust so I will have to be careful with dust masks and ventilation.
    Thank you for your comment 303Guy. I think it is always advisable to pay attention to perfect ventilaton when casting. There are masks for filtering zinc oxide smoke from 3M and the like.But I guess you know more about those potential health issues than I do. I still have to research more about that, I was focused mostly on the technical issues.

    PS I'm thinking about getting a P14 rifle.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check