Something I've learned about expanders

[Starsizer]

I've been reloading for 9mm and 44 magnum for years. Not until I started working with my Marlin 1894 44 Mag did I pay much attention to the expander powder funnel diameter of my Dillon 550 die sets. I started to size my COWW+2% bullets to .434 and load them up. When the finished rounds started looking like a snake which just ate a pig it finally dawned on me to check the size of the expander stem size. It was .426! Yikes! Pulled a few bullets and they were being sized down in the cases after bullet seating and crimping. I sent a note to Lathesmith and he suggested a new expander insert that was .431 diameter. Got it, works great, bullets aren't sized down in the reloading process and they shoot great. Next up was the 9mm. I have a P365, a P239, and a P226 pistol and they all measure .357. I size my 9mm bullets to .358. The only 9mm barrel I have which slugs .355 is a Barsto replacement barrel for my P226. I size those to .356. So I miked the 9mm expander die and it measured .350! Yikes! I was stuffing .358 bullets into a case expanded to .350. I ordered a new .355 expander from Lathesmith a couple of days ago to deal with this problem. This may be common knowledge for many but I was really surprised that the 9mm expander was only .350. Great for jacketed but not so much for .358 sized bullets.

[fecmech]

Jacketed expanders in 9mm sets are one of the main reasons casters have problems in the 9mm with accuracy and leading along with multiple barrel groove diameters.

[ioon44]

Another thing to try is back the sizing die out 1 turn which is around 0.080" this will size the case less but you need to make sure the brass will plunk in to the barrel and that you still have sufficient neck tension to prevent bullet set back.

I set my 9 mm expander to bell the cases mouths to .385" to .390" depending on the brand of brass.

Different brands of brass will affect how much a bullet is swagged after loading, FC brass seems to swagge less than WIN brass every thing else falls in between.

I am currently loading for a Walther PPQ SF and the barrel slugs at .357" so I am sizing to .360" using 10 BHN alloy, after pulling a loaded round the bullet measures .359". This is working great, no leading, very accurate and functions 100%.

These loads work in several other 9 mm's I have.

[Rizzo]

There are posts around here somewhere about how lead bullets get "swaged" down to a smaller diameter when pressed into a 9mm case.

In other words, if you were to pull the bullet after seating you would find that the bullet diameter was less than what you sized it at.

One "fix" for those using Lee dies is to use the 38 S&W expander part in the 9mm die.
This will expand the case a bit more and stop the "swaging".
I have done this myself and is what I use now.
Cost was $3-4.00 as I recall.

[FredBuddy]

This is exactly why I am building
up a complete set of NOE expanders.

Another advantage is that since the
casing is a little wider, the boolit tends
to go in straighter, especially in 30-30's.
Less runout, better appearance.
My opinion, anyway.

[Starsizer]

Another thing to try is back the sizing die out 1 turn which is around 0.080" this will size the case less but you need to make sure the brass will plunk in to the barrel and that you still have sufficient neck tension to prevent bullet set back.

I set my 9 mm expander to bell the cases mouths to .385" to .390" depending on the brand of brass.

Different brands of brass will affect how much a bullet is swagged after loading, FC brass seems to swagge less than WIN brass every thing else falls in between.

I am currently loading for a Walther PPQ SF and the barrel slugs at .357" so I am sizing to .360" using 10 BHN alloy, after pulling a loaded round the bullet measures .359". This is working great, no leading, very accurate and functions 100%.

These loads work in several other 9 mm's I have.

Amazing how big 9mm barrels have become. But when I shoot some Blazer brass or WWB FMJ .355 ammo, it shoots good too in my Sigs.

[ioon44]

Back in the 1990's I had a custom built 1911 in 9 mm, it had a Clark barrel and it slugged at a little over .357", I later had it re chambered in to .38 Super, another gun I wish I had not sold.

[Starsizer]

Back in the 1990's I had a custom built 1911 in 9 mm, it had a Clark barrel and it slugged at a little over .357", I later had it re chambered in to .38 Super, another gun I wish I had not sold.

Those .38 Supers shoot like lasers too. Really sweet in a 1911. I feel your pain.

[jsizemore]

I have a Sig roto forged barrel that slugs 357 at the throat, I size at 3578 at a pulled bullet is 3575. Lathesmith mad my star sizing die 356. He made the sizing shank a little long to the start of the bell. I chucked the funnel/expander in my drill to shorten it a bit to work with my longest bullet I cast. Works like a champ. Lathesmith was a little concerned that it was a bit too oversized and it was. A little polishing brought it to where it needed to be. I might add that I cast an alloy of 95pb-3sb-2sn air cooled and takes about 2 weeks to come to the hardness I need to work at near max operating pressure for 9mm Luger.

[wv109323]

Yes This a problem with Dillon powder funnels and die sets. Manufacturers steer their products toward most reloaders which use jacketed bullets. The RCBS die sets for Cowboy Action have a little larger neck sizer. The problem there, the Cowboy sets are in limited calibers.

[kevin c]

I never had problems loading 9mm with commercial HiTek coated slugs that came from the company sized to .355, like jacketed. Once I started casting and HiTekking my own, sized to .357, I started shaving the coating and noticed a bit of sizing down on pulled boolits. That's when I found the Dillon expander was way undersized: it basically flared the case mouth, but didn't expand at all. Lathesmith fixed that for me with a custom M style die. Now I have the classic "Coke bottle" waisted 9mm rounds that I've always heard about.

[DHDeal]

I have just recently paid attention to this issue. I don't worry about it with the 9mm or 45 ACP as they'll be shot with jacketed bullets only (I have a Dillon SDB set up for each caliber for simplicity), but a new FA 97 in 327 Federal was making me think I did not know what I was doing or it just wasn't an accurate revolver that leaded up like crazy. The revolver did get some work done on the cylinder by both FA and Doug Guy and it shot much better, but still not what a FA should do. Another thread in "Handguns" made me take a look at the Lyman M Die for 32 H&R and there it was. The expander was .3095" (not even counting spring back). I pulled a couple bullets from loaded rounds and those measure .3117" after they'd been seated and crimped (another issue too). I had already opened up a .311" Lee Bullet Sizer Die to .3128" and between the Lyman M Die and the Redding Profile Crimp Die, my bullets we're being swaged to .3117".

I ordered a NOE setup including the Lee Die and surprise surprise (not really a surprise) that little revolver is one crazy accurate thing. The way I look at it is I spend time and effort to make my revolver bullets as perfect as I can for each gun they will be fired from, and an undersized bullet because of an undersized expander is not an acceptable situation.

I know this doesn't have a lot to do with loading semiautomatic ammo off of a Dillon, but an undersized expander with lead bullets isn't really a good idea for any handgun or rifle. After my 32 caliber undersized bullet fun, I decided to check all of my other M Dies and with the exception of the 357 Magnum one, the 44 and 45 were both smaller than I'd like. NOE to the rescue for this issue with they're available sizes of expanders.

For me, it's like I've learned something new that I should have already known!