Right BHN for lead?

[gifbohane]

Ok This might go down as stupid question of the week but....

With what is going on outside I have decided to start casting my own "boolits." I have been collecting lead for 10 years for this eventuality. I have the lyman pot, book and dipper. I want to cast 9mm (maybe rifle later) and I have not decided whether to lube or tumble yet. I am a reloader.

The lead I have came from three sources, wheel weights from my buddy's car repair shop, boat ballast (lots), range lead ( small amounts,) and fishing weights. I see where the BHN number seems important but I do not want to go to the trouble of buying a tool to determine the BHN. Now I will mostly plink this, so accuracy and precision are not a priority, just a round that SAFELY goes boom. If this step proves to be too complicated or expensive I will probably not proceed.

So can I just cast any and all of it without regard for the 5 to 20 number?

Sorry for the so basic question.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

The boat ballast and fishing weights could be anything. Search the site for info about pencil testing, shouldn't cost you much more than $10 or so. In the meantime, the clip on wheel weights should be plenty hard for 9mm. Beware, the 9mm can be difficult. Make sure the case gets expanded enough not to squeeze the boolit down excessively. Powder coating helped me out with taming the 9mm.

[dtknowles]

I would say 5 or even 8 is too soft and 15 is harder than you need and you are unlikely to be that high anyway.

Of all your challenges, the BHN might be the simplest. It does not look like your lead stash will make very hard bullets.

If it was me, I would start with your boat ballast, can you scratch it with your fingernail? If you can then mix it 50 50 with your wheelweights. If you can't then just cast some of those 9mm bullets. As long as your bullets aren't so soft that you can scratch them with your fingernail you should be fine in a 9mm as long as you keep the diameter bigger than your groove diameter.

I think diameter will be your bigger challenge with 9mm. To small and any alloy will lead the barrel but too big and the rounds will not chamber fully.

If you use the expander meant for .355" bullets on your cast bullets you will probably be squishing down the diameter of your bullets when you seat them in the cases. This can lead to leading.

Tim

[Rcmaveric]

Yes and no. Well probably, it's one of those "each person has their own unique experience and opinion" kind of situations.

If you want to keep this simple and easy as possible use a pencil lead or your thumb nail. It doesnt take fancy expensive hardness testers. You can get a pack of art pencils and know your BHN.

Anyways, clip on wheel weights aver abouts 12 BHN. My range Scraps averages abouts 8BHN. My stick On average about 6 BHN. Mixing Range Scraps and Clip ons 50/50 gives an average of 10 BHN. I keep all my alloys sorted by BHN. I have no idea what your ballast lead is. It could be any ole scrap and same with your fishing weights. Use your thumb nail on it, if it nicks and gouges easy easily it's about a 6 BHN or close to pure. If you can scratch it but not really gouge it its 10 ish. If you cant do any thing with your thumbnail its 12 or over BHN.

The way I roll:
6 BHN goes in the muzzle loader.
8 BHN general purpose light plinking (rifle and pistol)
10 BHN works great in everything rifle to pistol. (10 BHN is like lousiana hot sauce, I put that **** on everything) lol
12 BHN I used to use in my high end speed rifle and Mag Pistol. (Now I mostly just water drop the 10bhn bullets for that, it's easy than having two different alloys)

Honestly I mostly only use 8 and 10 BHN aka rang scraps and 50/50 Rs to Coww. In the beginning I used only Coww. But then it got hard to find and RS was easy and plenty so I mixed it to stretch my supply (this was a year or so before I got hardness tester). Starting running pure RS in my 9mm. Everything worked fine. I got the hardness test to make things more repeatable and to know more what I was doing mixing mystery metals. No it's just easier to sort my alloys by general BHN then mix up what I need as I go. I still use the same ratios as before I had the tester.

So honestly you dont need to know your exact BHN. Just an approx which you can do just fine with your thumb nail. But eventually you will want to know.

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[Dusty Bannister]

I will mention that you need to keep an eye on the clip on WW as some are made of iron, some of zinc alloy and some of a decent bullet casting alloy. Check the "stickies" on the forum to understand what you need to watch for and avoid ruining a pot of casting alloy.

Some folks have had troubles getting good results starting with the 9MM and cast bullets. There is a sticky on setting up for a new 9MM and it would be a good idea for you to read through that informative thread. And there is the site search capability with the search box in the upper right corner just below the banner adds. Enjoy the reading.

[Land Owner]

In all of that said above, you STILL would do well with some TIN to aid in fill out of the mold, and to slightly increase the hardness.

I prefer 49/49/2 - Pb/WW/Sn, which leads to an untested BHN of ~12. ymmv.

Breaking that down: 49% Lead (keel, sinkers) - 49% Wheel Weights (COWW, Scrap) - 2% Tin

Works great for me in everything I shoot, which is roughly 95% plinking, and 5% shot through hogs!

[lightman]

It sounds like you are off to a good start.

From what you posted I would start with your wheel weights. They are known alloy and have been proven to work well. Read the stickies and learn to sort them. There will be some steel ones, zinc ones, some sort of plastic composite ones. There will also be some stick on weights. Starting out wheel weights will get you to casting and shooting while you figure out where to go. But sort the clip on weights out and start there.

Then I would smelt your lead down in batches. Fishing sinkers in one batch, boat ballast in another, range lead in another. Then you can either test it for hardness or send it off to have it tested.

We have a member here that can test it for you. You can also buy a set of art pencils pretty cheap and they are pretty accurate once you get the feel for them.

The range lead will probably work as is or can be blended with your wheel weights. If you choose to powder coat you can get by with even softer lead.

Boat ballast can get you stocked up pretty quick if you have the ways and means to handle them.

[Rich/WIS]

BHN for range scrap is variable depending on what people were shooting. When i had a source there were a lot of commercial cast bullets in the mix and run of the mine ran about 10-11 BHN. Still have about a quarter ton of it on hand and use it straight for 45 ACP target loads. Suspect the fishing sinker will be close to pure and the ballast can be pretty much anything. Unless you know who made the ballast be cautious as whoever made it could have thrown in anything that would melt, like zinc wheel weights. Keep it separate and try casting a few bullets with it to be sure it is good alloy and not contaminated before mixing into good alloy. Best way to harden your alloy if needed is to hit Roto metals for known composition that you can mix with what you have. Foundry type (65/23/12) is not overly expensive and can be mixed with your softer alloys to make pretty much anything you want.

[USSR]

...the ballast can be pretty much anything. Unless you know who made the ballast be cautious as whoever made it could have thrown in anything that would melt...

Yep. Suggest you stick to known alloy lead sources. When you do this, you can create an alloy of a known consistency, which will basically tell you what the BHN is.

Don

[kevin c]

If you are willing to invest the time, effort and a relatively small amount of money, powder coat and HiTek are alternatives to traditional and tumble lube that reportedly let folks use softer alloys for their applications without leading.

[gifbohane]

Thanks for all the very helpful comments.

I made about 50 ingots from wheel weights over five years ago. I tried very hard to find and toss the Zincs but I screwed up and wound up with about 10 of the ingots having Zinc in them. I read elsewhere on this site about this having been done and my plan was to redo and hope that I could I could melt out the Zinc. Think that I am screwed since I moved to another state and do not now know which of the ingots is contaminated . To me this BNH is the hard part....unless I powdercoat??

I have a few hundred pounds of lead boat ballast that I never made into ingots and is untouched. Maybe I will focus on that.

[fredj338]

I dont think alloy hardness is as big a deal for handgun as rifle, too many get all wrapped up in numbers. I would melt & keep your alloys separate though. For clip ww, then range scrap, then everything else as mystery metal. I use diff ingot molds to track my diff alloy. I pretty much get by with just ranges scrap & that is my biggest source right now. If I have pure lead & will add clip ww or even lino. I That works for all my handgun needs, 9mm up to midrange magnums. Beyond that you can water drop & get some good increase in hardness but it always comes down to fit.
I used to be a staunch lubed bullet guy but since I started coating about 3y ago, I haven't touched my Star sizer. Coated are just easy & shoot fine & cleaner.

[fredj338]

Thanks for all the very helpful comments.

I made about 50 ingots from wheel weights over five years ago. I tried very hard to find and toss the Zincs but I screwed up and wound up with about 10 of the ingots having Zinc in them. I read elsewhere on this site about this having been done and my plan was to redo and hope that I could I could melt out the Zinc. Think that I am screwed since I moved to another state and do not now know which of the ingots is contaminated . To me this BNH is the hard part....unless I powdercoat??

I have a few hundred pounds of lead boat ballast that I never made into ingots and is untouched. Maybe I will focus on that.

A small amount of zinc isn't the end of the alloy. IF it will melt at 700deg or so, it is castable alloy. If it needs 775deg because of the zinc, it will still cast. You can further dilute those ingots with more clean alloy. My test for whether an alloy will work in bullet casting is if it easily dents. That will probably then work fine as a bullet alloy.

[Rcmaveric]

Buy muratic acid and put a few drops on suspicious ingots. If it reacts, there is zinc in it.

Zinc isn't a game ended as some claim. At .12% you wouldn't know it's in there and at around .3% is when the alloy starts acting up. If you want to keep your lead zinc free you have two choice and each has its pros and cons. By the way remelting and slowly letting it cool only works with alloys greater than 3% zinc. Because that's all that can alloy with lead and the excess precipitates out as it cools.

Method 1 with sulfur
-Remelt alloy
-Once molten slowly lower the temp till it's just barely molton.
- add a few table spoons of sulfur and mix quickly and thoroughly.
- after the smell stinky green and beautiful blaze of glory. Flux the nasty crap out.
- repeat a couple times for good measure

cons:
-Smell like really. I live in an apartment and the neighbors called the cops.and told them I was cooking meth. Cops showed up and we had a long talk about guns. Good times and interesting people.
- accidentally in Hale the green smoke will take your breath and cause some eye irtation. So only Doo small amounts at a time.
- did I mention the Class delta fire?

Pros:
-Cleans the alloy of zinc.
- adds sulfur to the alloy which has the same affect as adding arsenic so it will make the heat treatment very effective.

How it works:
Zinc is highly attracted to the sulfur. So the sulf pulls the zinc out of the melt and makes rocket fuel. The rocket fuel ignites. It's fine and safe doing small amounts at a time. You Leroy it and toss in a couple hand fulls you get what you deserve because I warned you. Lol

Method 2 Coper pentahydrant sulfate (I think I wrote that correct, doubt it because I am shooting from the hip) aka copper sulfate aka Zepp Root Killer

-Remelt alloy
- add a few table spoons of Copper Sulfate
- WAIT FOR THE BLUE COLOR TO FADE!!( moisture is why it's blue)
-mix thoroughly it will go from Blue, to white, to grey.
- repeat until it no longer turns grey. Your alloy is clean.

Pro:
-no odors, no fires, and no fumes.
-adds copper to the alloy and makes a nice tougher bullet. Not harder, just tougher so you bhn will be the same ish.

Cons-
-It will pull the tin out of alloy as well. Since you COWW that tin was negligible if any.
-properly dispose of that dross for obvious reasons. It will still have copper in it.
-may make the alloy tougher to cast with

How it works:
Copper has a higher affinity for lead than zinc. So it trades out at the molecular level. I can go deeper if you more in-depth science on it.

After you alloy is clean. Try and cast with it. If it acts up or is a pita raise the pot temp. If it still acts up then cast it into coins of about 4oz. Then add one coin to one full 20lb pot. The addition of copper can make an alloy stubborn. It only takes about .12% copper to give you some tough bullets.

I have cast with zinc tainted lead. The alloy just needs to be hotter and the mold run a little hotter. Then problems are clogging the pour spout wrinkles from poor fill out.and getting the pot hot enough to over come those.

Tin will help a smidge but will benefit the copper alloy more the the zinc alloy. Zinc bullets make an interestingly tough bullet also. Call me crazy lol( too much sulfer fumes lol).

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[Land Owner]

BPortelli, if the Moderators don't clip and start a new thread with your post, then you should (cut & paste). I believe stand alone, rather than piggyback, your post would receive greater notice and feedback if it was its own thread on this Forum. My $0.02...and welcome to Cast Boolit Forums mate.

[BPortelli]

BPortelli, if the Moderators don't clip and start a new thread with your post, then you should (cut & paste). I believe stand alone, rather than piggyback, your post would receive greater notice and feedback if it was its own thread on this Forum. My $0.02...and welcome to Cast Boolit Forums mate.

no problem, will do cheers