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Thread: Loads for 43 Spanish in Remington Rolling Block

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Loads for 43 Spanish in Remington Rolling Block

    I have been fabricating new cases for my Remington Rolling Block long barreled rifle, in 43 Spanish, and was wondering what everyone is using for loads. I have the RCBS 370 grain flat nosed plain based mold and a 0.439" sizer for my LAM-II. I have a verity of powders and primers.

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    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    24 gr of 5477 or 4198 has worked for me.

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    Boolit Master
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    Is black out of the question?
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    I use Lyman 43 Spanish bullet mold. Shoot as cast with 31.0 4198 or 70 grs 3f & 7 grs red dot. I have not had any luck with 5744. All my cases are made from new 348 brass. Jamison brass is very thin at the mouth of the case & collapse . I don't use a crimp. The 4198 load uses shot buffer to keep bullet in place. I have seen loads much higher than what I use, but see no need for such loads in a rifle that is close to being 140 years old. I realize some people don't like shot buffer loads. However common sense should be used when using buffers. I put just enough for the bullet to sit on & don't compress the buffer.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharps4590 View Post
    Is black out of the question?
    Black powder is not out of the question, but as I progress in age, I am getting less and less enthused about cleaning up afterwards. Having buckets of hot water and soap next to me when I shoot to throw the casings in. Cleaning all the debris out of the action and running hot water through the barrel. And I am trying to set up a load to deer hunt with this year. Instead of using my 1886 in 45-70. When I bought this rifle maybe 30 years ago, I bought a 370 grain mold from RCBS that was supposed to be designed for it. Well, the bullet cast of wheel weights miked only 0.432" and would drop right through the barrel after I discovered they didn't shoot very accurately. I called RCBS and they admitted that they had one sample of a 43 Spanish cartridge that had bullets of that diameter, so made the mold to match. So, after some discussion, they sent me a kit of lead slugs to slug the bore, and mail them back to them. Along with my mold. A few weeks later I received from them a mold that matched my bore (plus a few thousandths) and a 0.439" sizing die for my LAM-II, which actually sizes the bullets to about 0.440". Shooting with black powder at 100 yards with iron sights I could easily put them in a 3" circle. But that was 25 or more years ago and I want to start shooting the gun again.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Busetti View Post
    I use Lyman 43 Spanish bullet mold. Shoot as cast with 31.0 4198 or 70 grs 3f & 7 grs red dot. I have not had any luck with 5744. All my cases are made from new 348 brass. Jamison brass is very thin at the mouth of the case & collapse . I don't use a crimp. The 4198 load uses shot buffer to keep bullet in place. I have seen loads much higher than what I use, but see no need for such loads in a rifle that is close to being 140 years old. I realize some people don't like shot buffer loads. However common sense should be used when using buffers. I put just enough for the bullet to sit on & don't compress the buffer.
    Thanks very much for your information. This is what I need to know. I have seen similar loads using IMR-4198 in one of my case conversion manuals. But without many details. Since all of your cases were made from new 348 brass, did you turn them in a lathe to reduce the base dimension down close to the rim? I bought a bag of 348 brass a long time ago to try and make these, but didn't have a lathe and of course the 43 Spanish full length die won't resize this area of the case enough.

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    Boolit Master

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    I had my "go around' with .43 Spanish last year when I bought a RB carbine from a fellow forum member. An interesting and educational experience, to say the least. I bought my brass from Track of the Wolf at about $3.50 per case, and am satisfied that it is very good brass. They have an extensive write up on loading the cartridge on their website and both recommend and sell a die set. I acquired all of the recommended stuff but had difficulty in that the sizing die did not size the necks small enough to firmly seize the bullet and the seating die wouldn't crimp. The solution for my particular problem was that I had Lee custom make a Factory Crimp Die. I did just like you have done, requested loads from the brotherhood, and only got one response from TNsailorman who suggested a plinking load using Trailboss. There must be published loads out there, but I have run across almost none other than to stuff the case full of black powder. Like you, I'm finding the cleaning chore that follows BP to be getting less attractive. My carbine also likes .440", and I bought a box from Montana Precision Swaging.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Making 43 Spanish brass from 348 on a drill press with a file is a labor of love. Being retired I have the time to make them taking at least 10 minutes apiece. Of course it helps if you already have a good supply of 348 brass, which I lucked into.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Busetti View Post
    Making 43 Spanish brass from 348 on a drill press with a file is a labor of love. Being retired I have the time to make them taking at least 10 minutes apiece. Of course it helps if you already have a good supply of 348 brass, which I lucked into.
    I did make some out of 338 Win Mag cases, but the rim is too small for the extractor to pull them back out. I mounted them in my lathe and cut the belt off, leaving the case an almost exact shape to fit the chamber after case trimming and fire forming them. So now I am going to try cutting the base of a 348 case because the rim fits much better.

  10. #10
    The first cases I got from baco worked but the first three had body splits the first time out, so I tore them down and full body annealed them and they are working fine now, they had swagged the base down and curled the rim forward for headspace, I am not sure if they were "work hardened" or maybe a chamber issue on my gun, the 44-90 cases worked a lot better and you can trim long for paper patch, but you do have to headspace on the shoulder due to thinner rims,mine has a groove dia of 447 and likes 4759 and 5744 at bp velocitys 4198 with a little bigger dose works well also and I do use a filler with all three

    Bill

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    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    I did make some out of 338 Win Mag cases, but the rim is too small for the extractor to pull them back out. I mounted them in my lathe and cut the belt off, leaving the case an almost exact shape to fit the chamber after case trimming and fire forming them. So now I am going to try cutting the base of a 348 case because the rim fits much better.


    Do a search for forming .43 Spanish cases from belted cases, there are several threads, to replace the rim on the belted cases you simply use an E-clip in the extractor groove, you only have to make sure the gap is not clocked over the extractor when you insert the cases in the chamber. 9/16" if memory serves me correctly, I'll check the next time I'm in the shed. They can be had at your local hardware store or via Amazon for 50 at a time for about the same as a half a dozen from the hardware store out of the little cardboard boxes. Pinch them shut to give the best fit on the cases you have.

    And belted magnum brass is picked up for free around here, 348 brass is hoarded because it is so rare.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    To actually answer your original question:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	43 spanish data lee manual 1.jpg 
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	43 spanish data lee manual 2.jpg 
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	43 spanish lee die data.jpg 
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    This is all Lee data, if I remember I'll check my Accurate manual, there may be data listed there.

    Lee used and recommended 45-70 data, reduced 10%.

    First two are from the Lee loading manual, third is included in the set of 43 Spanish dies.

    Hope you can read it, still is a little disconcerting to take photos with my phone--I started life on an 8 house party line!
    Who would have thought we'd be carrying a movie camera around in our pockets?
    Hope this helps.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    300 Win Mag converted to .43 Spanish with E-clip extractor:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	43 spanish with e clip.jpg 
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ID:	259322

    The big A part# that I ordered:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	43 spanish e clips.jpg 
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ID:	259323


    I used the 9/16" size because Amazon had them in stock, 1/2" works, I just close the 9/16" size up a little bit in a vise to get them to stay on. I think the larger diameter gives the extractor a little more to grab on to.
    Last edited by 15meter; 03-29-2020 at 04:33 PM.

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    Boolit Master
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    Don, that duplex load Bob mentions should burn darn near as clean as smokeless. Clean up is no more difficult than smokeless. I had to use a duplex load in one of my German doubles to get it to regulate. Only difference is I used SR-4759. Works great.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

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    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    300 Win Mag converted to .43 Spanish with E-clip extractor:

    Attachment 259301

    The big A part# that I ordered:
    Attachment 259302

    I used the 9/16" size because Amazon had them in stock, 1/2" works, I just close the 9/16" size up a little bit in a vise to get them to stay on. I think the larger diameter gives the extractor a little more to grab on to.
    These attachments never show up on my computer when I click on them. Do they show for everybody else?

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    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    These attachments never show up on my computer when I click on them. Do they show for everybody else?

    Not for me and I'm the guy who posted it...must be a hitch in the git-a-long. Have to see if I can fix it or somebody done let the smoke out of that post--everybody knows these things run on smoke.

    Once you let the smoke out of a computer they never seem to work again

  17. #17
    Boolit Master 15meter's Avatar
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    Fixed, at least for me, YMMV.

    And looked right at the Accurate loading manual when I was stuffing the polisher, knew I needed to check for 43 Spanish load data and walked right out of the shed to let the polisher do it's thing without annoying me with the racket. Maybe I'll remember when I go back out there........

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    Quote Originally Posted by 15meter View Post
    Once you let the smoke out of a computer they never seem to work again
    I wondered what that smoke was in here. I thought it was my wife outside roasting those armadillos on a spit over the campfire in the side yard?

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    I made a mandrel from a round wood rod the size of the mouth 348. Slide the dowel into the case leaving 1" sticking out of the case. Clamp the drill press jaws down on the case neck just tight enough to hold the case in the chuck. Take 5" piece of 2x2 wood & drill a hole big enough to hold a fiberglass rod the diameter of the primer pocket. The fiber glass rod should stick out of the block just enough to keep the case head off the block of wood. Clamp block of wood in drill press vice. Get 3 files, one rough cut, one medium & one fine tooth. Use the files to file down the bottom of the case above the rim going no farther than 5/8 above the rim. File down to about .515/.514 dia. Be sure you have a micrometer to check your progress, also checking to see if the case will chamber in your .43 as you file the case down. When you have a correctly turned down case anneal it & fire a case forming load in it. After fire forming check for case length & true up the case mouth. Its a labor of love if you don't have a lot of money to spend & have the 348 brass. Also don't get real aggressive with the course file or the medium file. After making several cases you will know how to make them faster. I hope all of this makes sense. Of course this is just my way of doing it. Others will offer better ways.

  20. #20
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    I've got a copy of "Shooting the .43 Spanish Rolling Block" by Croft Barker. If you would like to read it shoot me a pm and i'll send it along
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check