Inline FabricationMidSouth Shooters SupplyLee PrecisionADvertise here
RotoMetals2RepackboxWidenersTitan Reloading

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: What type of Drill do I need?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis MO
    Posts
    2,713

    What type of Drill do I need?

    Need to drill a couple of holes in a Harden Steel 98 Mauser bolt. What type of drill bit do I need, Cobalt, Carbide etc. Already burned up a couple of HSS type bits

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    2,386
    I'm a big fan of Cobalt drill bits & plenty of oil.

    They're about as hard as Chinese Algebra, and have always done a good job for me.

    Without knowing what ya gotta get through, its kind of hard to make a specific recommendation.
    It wasn't playing the blame game, finding fault, and complaining about every little thing that made America great.
    It was God, guns, and guts.


    Never pick a fight with old people.
    If they don't think they can win it: They'll just kill you.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    30 miles South of Cheyenne, unfortunately
    Posts
    1,042
    Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I think a bit more information would be very helpful, such as, why, where, size, etc.
    There are 550 million arms in worldwide circulation. This is 1 firearm for every 12 people on the planet. The only question is , HOW DO WE ARM THE OTHER !!? The Lord of War.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    georgerkahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    South of the (Canada) border
    Posts
    1,734
    I have had poor results drilling hardened steel. You may wish to check machinery handbooks to determine the correct speed for the size you're planning on drilling, as a first. The correct r.p.m.'s of the drill bit -- which varies by diameter is important. Also, a good cutting oil helps immensely in both keeping cutting edges cool, and enabling them to do their work, cutting. I generally make a modeling clay "dam" around spot, using LOTS of oil -- my favourite is a product called, "Tap-It". Most sadly, you may (I hope not) be doomed for failure in your attempts, unless (which opens up a gigantic can of worms, so to speak) you heat your work-piece to anneal it -- get it soft enough to drill; and then, hopefully re-harden it. I've had better success with solid carbide screw machine bits from an outfit on Long Island, New York, called Drills & Cutters -- https://drillsandcutters.com/carbide...screw-machine/. The screw machine bits are really much shorter than jobber bits, and thusly -- in your drill press chuck -- are prone to significantly less wobble and truer holes. You may wish to ring them; they have been most helpful to me (hey -- before calling, I'd never heard of "screw machine bits" ).
    BEST wishes!
    geo
    Last edited by georgerkahn; 03-24-2020 at 07:59 AM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    1,076
    There is a drill that will drill very hard steel......solid carbide rod with a pyramid shape point.Run at high speed ,it basically melts out the steel and pushes it aside,not suitable for deep drilling......If these are not suitable ,then I suggest EDM,which will hole anything even solid carbide.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,463
    What are you drilling and how large a drill do you need to use?

    You may need to spot anneal or use a carbide drill.
    If you spot anneal you might be able to get by with a cobalt drill.

    The big problem is if you have to ask this question you are not likely to have the skill needed to successfully drill something hard. It is tricky to get it right.
    EDG

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    11,607
    Heres some info that might help. HSS cobalt may cut it but wont last long. Carbide will cut it but you need a pretty good spindle for it to hold up, chatter run out vibration all will damage carbide. Speeds and feeds are very important. I have drilled 60 RC die inserts with carbide spade drills with good results, but this was done in an end mill or jig bore machine for location reasons. AN EDM will do the job nicely but is slower than drilling., unless its a action only there are few edms with a tank that can hold a barreled action. The submersed flush also makes it a messy way.

    Most of the 98s were case hardened so its getting thru the first .060 or so thats the hard part. Here the short spade type carbide drill ( solid not soldered end) will get thru. If you want to tap the hole you also need to relieve the cased area with a body sized drill also or taps wont hold up. It can be one and isnt super hard but you do need a solid et up and a goo spindle in the machine. Chips will be fine hot and sharp so be careful.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    S. Ky
    Posts
    129
    Jerry Stahl of Bowling Green Ky (deceased) was expert at this. Heat a 7/16-1/2" plug cherry red it will "spot" anneal the location of the drill & tap. Of course Before heating it's a good idea to shape the plug to the surface to be annealed. Let the plug set on the spot till it is room temperature then reheat for the next spot. One plug can be used time after time. As I recall he just used High speed bits & regular taps after annealing. No sweat.
    If you feel need test the annealed spot with a file, cuts easy, you're good.
    One important point, spot anneal has Very minimal effect on the strength of the part.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy MaLar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    S,E, Idaho
    Posts
    387
    Quote Originally Posted by PHyrbird View Post
    Jerry Stahl of Bowling Green Ky (deceased) was expert at this. Heat a 7/16-1/2" plug cherry red it will "spot" anneal the location of the drill & tap. Of course Before heating it's a good idea to shape the plug to the surface to be annealed. Let the plug set on the spot till it is room temperature then reheat for the next spot. One plug can be used time after time. As I recall he just used High speed bits & regular taps after annealing. No sweat.
    If you feel need test the annealed spot with a file, cuts easy, you're good.
    One important point, spot anneal has Very minimal effect on the strength of the part.
    He wants to drill the bolt not the receiver.
    Do not confuse my being polite for weakness.
    Using MXlinux 18.3

  10. #10
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis MO
    Posts
    2,713
    Was planning or hoping to install a Savage bolt head on a Mauser Bolt

  11. #11
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    4,007
    Quote Originally Posted by brstevns View Post
    Was planning or hoping to install a Savage bolt head on a Mauser Bolt
    In that case, it might work if both bolts were cut in half...…

    I would first accurately measure the length of the stripped Mauser bolt.

    I would then cut the Mauser bolt about 1/2" ahead of the bolt handle (with a heat sink in the rear threads to protect the cocking cam there).

    I would then cut the Savage bolt also somewhere ahead of the bolt handle (with a lead heat sink wrap around the locking lugs), at a spot that would make the hybrid bolt the same length as the original Mauser bolt after welding.

    After the two pieces were welded together at the cuts (with heat sinks on both ends of the hybrid), I would then check/adjust headspace.


    Then I would kick myself for even thinking about doing that...…………………………………..


    .
    Last edited by pietro; 03-27-2020 at 04:58 PM.
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis MO
    Posts
    2,713
    It is a neat way to make up a bolt to feed the .223 in a Mauser Action. That Why!

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    562
    A place I worked at years ago converted SA Rem LH 700's to 223 by bushing the bolt face and using a Sako extractor. They always worked fine, never heard of any issues.

    You're in new territory with the Mauser though. You may want to get a few bolt bodies for practice.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    137
    I use 3/16" drill bits quite a bit. I have found decent bits in quantity online. They offer them in various sizes.

    The ones that I am using are cobalt bits that come in a10 pack from Amazon. It may take a few of them to get the job done.

    As previous posters mentioned: make sure that you are using the proper speed and lubricant. I have switched from 3in1 oil to a water-based cutting and drilling lubricant from NAPA. Cuts and cools well, cleans up easily and is cheaper.

    I would recommend a decent drill press as well.

    I drilled an Austrian Mauser action for a scope mount about 30years ago. Today I have a drill press and quality bits. If I needed to complete that task again I would not hesitate to visit my local gunsmith.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,331
    I have used Tungsten Carbide drill bits before. They will drill just about anything. There are several types of these. Solid carbide, where the entire bit is carbide. Spade tipped with a flat tip kind of like an arrow head. Carbide tipped that are sharpened for cutting metal. And Carbide tipped masonry hammer drills.
    Of these kind I have not tried the spade tip units, but have used all the others. One thing that I have experienced is that they are not as precise as HSS bits. If you need an exact sized hole you are better off drilling a hole a bit smaller and using a carbide reamer to take it to the actual size.
    I like cheap stuff so what I have ended up doing is learning how to sharpen the cheapo carbide tipped concrete hammer drill bits to cut steel. They can be sharpened with diamond wheels. There are cheap diamond wheels that are for use on dremel type tools. That is what I use.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    SE Ohio
    Posts
    1,745
    I’ve used Tungsten Carbide bits mostly. I use to buy from Brownell but lucked into TRW bits to last a life time.
    I have drilled 98 actions for scope mounts and 4 holes is the end of the bit for drilling hardened actions. I do use a smaller bit to hole action then run the 31 through it. Only because I have hundreds of small bits In the TRW stuff. After holes are drilled then you must be very careful not to twist a tap off. I think heat of drilling holes softens metal around hole some, but it’s still pretty hard. If I had to buy bits it would be from industrial supply and only buy sizes you need bulk. Drill bit sets are a waste. The shortest bit is best for most gun projects.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy

    oconeedan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Lake Oconee Ga
    Posts
    182
    As a knife maker, I have to drill hardened steel once in a while. I use carbide bits, they are short and expensive. My method, is to peck at it. Drill press only, you will break it if you use a hand drill. Use cutting oil. I drill in short, interrupted pecks, allowing all chips to clear. If you get it hot you are making things more difficult. If you use too much pressure, the bit will break. Carbide bits don't like to bend. A sharp, carbide bit, will get the job done.
    Dan

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Adna, Washington
    Posts
    224
    " It is a neat way to make up a bolt to feed the .223 in a Mauser Action. That Why "

    OK, you did not say WHICH Mauser type of bolt you want to convert.
    A 93, 94, 95 or a Swedish or a M98 ?? big differrence between them all.

    Another option is to buy the back half of the FN bolt bodies that Sarco has,
    They are set up for the M98, nice handle, and third lug, but the front section of the body is oversize at .720 for a reason.
    Then machine a new bolt head and baffle to fit onto the projection the bolt has all ready, attach or pin and there you go.

    You can recut the rear section to work on the 93 - 96, and the thread timing is correct for the Swede sleeves.
    Make a new bolt head and baffle, pin and off you go to the fun part of the conversion, that of making the shaped magazine insert to go into the old trigger guard to feed the 5.56 or 300 BO.

    Yes its doable and I am in the middle of the same type of conversion once the Savage bolt head gets here so I can copy it to make new bolt heads to fit onto the Sarco FN Mauser bolt bodies

    JW

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    South Louisiana
    Posts
    511
    This is an operation that needs to be done in a lathe or mill, hence why would you need a drill? You need a carbide indexable boring bar set up.
    NRA High Master XTC
    DR# 2125

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,463
    If this is changing the bolt face drilling is not the way to go. You want to bore the bolt face out with a small carbide boring bar. You can even grind a piece of brazed carbide to bore the shallow recess needed for a bolt face bushing.

    I have never bored one out but I have faced them off to clean up light pitting.
    EDG

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check