Hey Garand Guys

[Nick Adams]

Nick Adams- that's a great family photo! Daddy and Mama Hog wth the young uns. Dead like they oughta be. I bet that was fun with the M1

Many examples of guys taking critters with their M1s ...

This pic was posted on the CMP forums some years back. The hunter harvested an elk with his M1 chambered in .35 Whelen.

[Nick Adams]

Deer too ...

[Nick Adams]

This pic appeared in an issue of the GCA Journal ...

A young Texan took this hoggie with one shot from over 110-yds away with an M1 that he and his Dad had built in their work shop ...

[nicholst55]

I read the article over the weekend, and found it very interesting and thought-provoking. What the author(s) state(s) is true - the M1 was originally designed around M1 Ball ammo. One of the numerous changes that John Garand had to make was to make the rifle function correctly with 'other' ammo, like M2 Ball and Armor Piercing. Based on the testing that was performed for the article, I will give strong consideration to shooting one of my M1s with commercial ammo (or ammo loaded with something besides 4895 or 4064).

[higgins]

I'm curious. Did the GCA article say it was alright to shoot commercial ammo in general terms or did it recommend commercial loads loaded specifically for Garands, of which there are some around? When commercial ammo comes up in these threads the conversation invariably drifts quickly to "hunting" factory loads which may not be the same as Garand-appropriate factory loads.

[cabezaverde]

I read the article over the weekend, and found it very interesting and thought-provoking. What the author(s) state(s) is true - the M1 was originally designed around M1 Ball ammo. One of the numerous changes that John Garand had to make was to make the rifle function correctly with 'other' ammo, like M2 Ball and Armor Piercing. Based on the testing that was performed for the article, I will give strong consideration to shooting one of my M1s with commercial ammo (or ammo loaded with something besides 4895 or 4064).

Finally a comment from someone who read the article.

[cabezaverde]

I'm curious. Did the GCA article say it was alright to shoot commercial ammo in general terms or did it recommend commercial loads loaded specifically for Garands, of which there are some around? When commercial ammo comes up in these threads the conversation invariably drifts quickly to "hunting" factory loads which may not be the same as Garand-appropriate factory loads.

Short answer is anything factory loaded under 180 grains.

[Nick Adams]

Short answer is anything factory loaded under 180 grains.

... if you're using the GI gas plug.

Or you could install an adjustable gas plug, like the Schuster Mfg. unit, and then safely shoot any commercial '06 ammo, including the heavy hunting loads with the 180gn, 200gn, or 220gn bullets.

Install the adj. plug in place of the GI plug, get out to the range, and dail in the load using the adjustment screw inside the plug.

You turn that screw bit-by-bit (in 1/8 - 1/4 turn increments) until there's just enough gas impacting the piston of the op rod to reliably cycle the action shooting that load.

If you change over to a different hunting load with, say, a lighter 165gn bullet, you may have to re-adjust the screw.

Also, opening or closing the screw either way - 1/4 to 1/8 of a turn - will tighten or open group sizes. So if, like me, you reload for your M1, the adj. plug can actually help fine tune a handload to your rifle.

I use the Schuster M1 adj. plug in my 18.25" 'Tanker' M1 and shoot Remington's 220gn Core Lokts and a 220gn handload over Varget with zero issues.

[Pirate69]

I also read the article. It seemed to fly into the face of everything that I have ever heard about using commercial ammo in a M1 Garand. Using QuickLoad, I looked to see if I could find a load, using a 180 grain bullet and a max chamber pressure of 60,000 psi, that would generate a muzzle pressure greater than 10,000 psi. Looking at a number of slow burning powders, I could not find a combination that presented excessive chamber pressure and port pressure using an 180 grain bullet. That was a little surprising to me. So I guess commercial ammo with 180 grain bullets, or less, may be suitable for a Garand, if you like.

We are really looking at two pressures of concern here. The first is chamber pressure. It should be noted that the M2 Ball ammo max chamber pressure is 50,000 psi. The 30-06 Springfield round has a SAAMI pressure of 62,000 psi. The pressure difference between the rounds may decrease, using commercial ammo, the life of your Garand over time. It definitely will not increase it.

Secondly, there is port pressure. If I recall correctly, the spec is around 8,000 psi plus or minus 2,000 psi. A 168 grain bullet and 48.0 grains of Varget yields approximately 8236 psi. A 152 grain bullet and 56 grains of IMR 4350 yields approximately 8,983 psi. Without knowing what powders are used in commercial ammo, it has to be assumed that the chamber pressure is SAAMI pressure or less. Port pressure is unknown but it seems doubtful that the pressure will be excessive based on information provided.

Having said all of that, I treat my Garands as gently as possible. I limit both chamber and port pressure to preserve the rifles. I guess it is just a personal preference as to what you want to shot in your Garand. I learn something new everyday.

[6mm win lee]

Has anyone seen the article in the Garand Collectors Journal about it being OK to shoot commercial 30-06 in a Garand without an adjustable gas plug?

You may want to watch this video on shooting ammo in the Garand. He seems to make a lot of sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSdswZHJUc

[thegatman]

I am looking to use 125 grains spitzers in the Garand. Using H4895 powder, can I still use 47 grains or should I increase it. No adjustable gas plug on this Garand.

[Ecramer]

I read the article and was surprised by its conclusions. For the nonce I'm still restricting my Garands to ammo that meets the older criteria, using stick powders and restricted to the lower pressures. It's nice to know that if the "zombie apocalypse" hits I'm not restricted to it.

[Ecramer]

I read the article and was surprised by its conclusions. For the nonce I'm still restricting my Garands to ammo that meets the older criteria, using stick powders and restricted to the lower pressures. It's nice to know that if the "zombie apocalypse" hits I'm not restricted to it.

[Pirate69]

I am looking to use 125 grains spitzers in the Garand. Using H4895 powder, can I still use 47 grains or should I increase it. No adjustable gas plug on this Garand.

You should be around a chamber pressure of 32,600 psi. Port pressure around 8,000 psi and a velocity of 2,700 fps.

[thegatman]

I found a load on the CMP forum. 125 grain spitzer with 46.5 grains of H4895.

[tejano]

http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

I thought it was interesting. I have 3 M1 rifles. I have the schuster plug in one of them and it works well.

[cabezaverde]

Does anyone have a PDF of the Schuster plug adjustment instructions?

[thegatman]

Does anyone have a PDF of the Schuster plug adjustment instructions?

Check your email.

[thegatman]

Tested those spitzer loads today. Very accurate for an old rifle.

[kerplode]

Interesting article, but I think I'll continue to use Garand-specific loads in my rifles. They're old, and parts are getting more expensive...No reason to not treat them gently. Especially since I can still load or buy good Garand-specific ammo.

I took the CMPs Advance Maintenance Course last year, and we discussed this topic a bit. The armorers said that they don't really see bent op rods from commercial ammo, but they have repaired quite a few customer guns where commercial ammo use resulted in cracking the heal of the receiver due to the bolt bashing into it more forcefully. As a result, they recommend against anything not specifically loaded for the Garand.