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Thread: Hey Garand Guys

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    cabezaverde's Avatar
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    Hey Garand Guys

    Has anyone seen the article in the Garand Collectors Journal about it being OK to shoot commercial 30-06 in a Garand without an adjustable gas plug?
    Founder of the Single Shot section.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.


    8 in the 10 ring, then I get a PING. Love my Garand.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    I haven't read it, but suspect its in the category of 'it'll work fine for a while', sort of like driving your car at 110mph.
    Or it'll be conditional on using lighter bullets.

    The commercial ammo warning didn't come about by someone's arbitrary statement.

    I sold my Garand awhile back when I was thinning the herd.
    When I first got it, and saw the price of new operating rods, I didn't even consider going beyond the
    old school recommendations, or try to make it into a .300WinMag.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 03-23-2020 at 03:52 PM.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    People with Garands need to educate themselves by reading the "why"s" of you shouldn't use modern ammo, there are lots of actual articles by knowledgeable people out there, I'm not talking about someones blog of their opinion, or their posting on youtube.
    "People in Arizona carry guns," said Detective David Ramer, a Chandler police spokesman. You better be careful about who you are picking on...

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    cabezaverde's Avatar
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    I will have to scan the article.

    It talks about the refinements of measuring pressure and op rod speed. This is not a blog or someones youtube post.
    Founder of the Single Shot section.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.


    8 in the 10 ring, then I get a PING. Love my Garand.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    The correct way to do this would be to mount a strain gage near the muzzle of a bolt action rifle, in a location which corresponds to the placement of the gas port on the M1 Garand barrel. The Oehler 43 system requires about 10,000 psi to activate the strain gage, if memory serves, and for the Garand you want a pressure out at the gas port of 10,000+/-2000 psi. Using the old style government combination breech/port pressure barrel, the radial copper system was used, having the "C" size .225x.400" copper for the chamber pressure and the old, no longer made "D" size .146x400" (pistol) copper for the port pressure. The WW2 spec was 8,000+/-2000 cup (radial copper), but the number obtained by the older method is not equivalent to modern psia.


    Old thread here has relevant discussion, including some measurements by Larry Gibson.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...for-the-Garand
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    I have a friend that bought some Federal .30-06 Match Ammo that said Suitable for Garand, 168gr Sierra MatchKings.
    But that was 10yrs ago. And He passed shortly there after. So I have no idea if it worked as it was supposed to.

    I have always loaded what my Dad taught me. H4895-49grs w/150gr bullet.

    Never dumb enough to shoot Commercial Hunting Ammo in My Beautiful 1944 Winchester.
    I HATE auto-correct


    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    I'm hung up on IMR-4895 and 48.0 gr. I did shoot several boxes of PMC FMJ through mine years ago without seeming ill effect, but I think it was loaded to duplicate military issue.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    I don't stray vary far from IMR 4895 and the charges posted here for a good reason . I've straightened an op rod someone else bent ......once , I'm not excited about doing that again .

    Get an adjustable gas plug and play all you want . They were made for a reason .

    Jack
    Buy it cheap and stack it deep , you may need it !

    Black Rifles Matter

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    There's a lot of info out there, I wouldn't run hunting ammo w/o the adjustable plug. Another option is an extended plug that increased the volume of the gas cylinder. saw one and it worked well.

    Proper lubrication with grease is essential for the longevity of the rifle. Again there is a lot of info out there.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I only run milsurp ammo or equivalent handloads and I still bought an adjustable plug because it was cheap. No matter what I am shooting I can dial it in to function reliable, but softly. Compared to an op-rod it's really cheap insurance and then you can run any ammo if you so choose. For instance if, on a whim, you wanted to take it to Alaska to hunt Caribou and use commercial ammo...

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    There are available commercial ammo fitted for milspec M1 & M1A that cycles reliably & so are handloads such as those specified for M1 in Hornady book.
    Fast ones may run on your M1 with spec gas plug but will eventually catchup with the op rod, so why risk it?
    Not a big fan of adjustable gas plug.
    ...Speak softly & carry a big stick...

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    4895 or 4064 powder military duplication loads only for me. Been shootin' mine for years with no problems and don't anticipate any either.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I run IMR 4895 in Garands and never go over 48.0 grains. I love my Garands far more than I worship at the feet of the velocity gods. I have found that a 147 grain FMJ or a Hornady 150 gr. JSP will run with those loads just fine. I have never put a commercial load in one of my Garands and will not. 2600 to 2700 fps will put a deer down even if it is wearing Kevlar. I don use a Garand for hunting but even if I did, I would not load some of the hot loads and powders listed in reloading manuals. These are almost universally tailored to the bolt action rifle. And I suspect that commercial ammo is also loaded that way. I have seen IMR 4064 listed in some manuals with specific loads for the 168 grain match bullet. I assume that those loads were developed using a Garand but do not know if this is the case. OP rods are hard to come by and expensive when you find one. It does not make sense to me to try and see how much punishment it will take before damage occurs. my .02 anyway, james

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Way back when I was at the Huston gun show where dealers sell just about anything firearm related. One dealer was selling op rods for $50 each. Bought two after checking the piston diameter and bends. That day has long passed and last op rod I saw went for $165. As far as the diet I have my Garand on, only Lake City surplus M2 ball or 47 grs IMR 4895 with a 147 FMJ or 150 grs soft point. Frank

  15. #15
    Boolit Man Nick Adams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seetrout View Post
    I only run milsurp ammo or equivalent handloads and I still bought an adjustable plug because it was cheap. No matter what I am shooting I can dial it in to function reliable, but softly. Compared to an op-rod it's really cheap insurance and then you can run any ammo if you so choose. For instance if, on a whim, you wanted to take it to Alaska to hunt Caribou and use commercial ammo...
    The adjustable M1 gas plug, like the one Schuster Mfg. sells, simply gives the Garand owner a wider versatility of use for his rifle, especially if he wants to hunt with it, which many do. I know a few guys who go deer hunting with their M1s every year.

    There are Alaskans who hunt with their M1s too - Caribou, Moose, etc. - or keep their M1 loaded with the heavy 220gn 30-06 ammo for 'bear defense.' The adj. gas plug is ideal these purposes, since you can dial-in any commercial ammo for the type of hunting you're doing, and your M1's OP rod and gas system remain protected.

    In the lower 48, I might use 165gn SP hunting ammo on deer, but then use something heavier and hotter, topped with 180gn to 220gn bullets, on the bigger, tougher critters, like elk, black bear, or for sure, hogs.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    That's an impressive photo, Nick. Thanks for posting it.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Ok, I finally got around to scanning the article from the Garand Collectors Journal.

    If you are interested in a copy, drop me a PM with your email address. Interesting reading. (But I do have an adjustable plug in mine).
    Founder of the Single Shot section.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.


    8 in the 10 ring, then I get a PING. Love my Garand.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I have sent the article to a few who requested it. Will be interested in thoughts and opinions.
    Founder of the Single Shot section.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.


    8 in the 10 ring, then I get a PING. Love my Garand.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Nick Adams- that's a great family photo! Daddy and Mama Hog wth the young uns. Dead like they oughta be. I bet that was fun with the M1

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I killed a black bear with my M1 a couple of years ago.
    I only shoot loads recommended for M1 Garands in my gun...dale

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check