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Thread: Hey Garand Guys

  1. #41
    Boolit Master

    alamogunr's Avatar
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    Apologies to cabezaverde. I got the article and have read it thru at least twice. Being a newby to Garands, it is taking awhile to digest everything. Meanwhile I ran across a reference to a book I had not heard of before. "The Essential M1 Garand" by Jim Thompson. I ordered it and it was delivered yesterday. Quite a lot for me to take in, so I'm going slowly. The only experience I had with Garands was in college in ROTC. Anybody remember when that was compulsory? Anyway this was in 1961/1962 and although having to work off demerits by end of school year cleaning of the M1's, I don't remember much of practical use.

    But I do thank you for sending the article. It is going into my M1 file.
    John
    W.TN

  2. #42
    Boolit Master

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    I have not read the file , on another note have only one M1 as I gave my father the best one I could get years ago , gave the son and the son in law each their own also , the youngest son will get mine or my fathers in time as he would be hard pressed at 8 to put it to practical use , M1 it is a good gun , my father used one in korea and he has nothing but praise for them , he also liked the BAR and he used m1 carbine though technically it was a m3 with infrared , will have to find the article and read it .

  3. #43
    Boolit Master

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    Thank you for the article , was a good read and does provide information to help one determine what they wish to load and shoot , thanks for taking the time to post and to send the article

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy
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    Long time lurker, first post. Thanks to all you fine people for sharing your knowledge and experience.

    The GCA article talked about in this thread is actually the second in a "series" of articles about what ammo to use (or not use) in the Garand. This was Winter 2019, Volume 34, Issue 1. This was kind of a rebuttal to a previous article warning that using some types of ammo could damage the M1.

    GCA Journal Volume 34, Issue 2, Spring 2020, has the 3rd article in the "series". Gus Fisher, Jim Swartz and Rick Gushman wrote this article. Gus Fisher is a legend in the M1 Garand crowd. They make the case that using ammo not specifically manufactured for use in the M1 may damage the rifle. The focus of all these articles is using factory loaded jacketed bullets and higher pressure loads with slower burning powders. I don't remember any mention of cast bullets in the articles.

    I only use Lake City or my handloads (within the recommended parameters) in my Garands. I would like to branch out using cast loads just for fun.

  5. #45
    Boolit Grand Master

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    As I was told the garand was set up to work within a set pressure at the gas port. Powders were to be slower than IMR **** ( dont remember the number for sure at the moment) the 4895s and IMR 4064 were very popular in this range. The risk was bent op rods.

    The military surplus ammos should be loaded to the correct port pressure for this rifle. Thou I have always been leery f the special ball loads with 173 grn bullet in 30-06, machine gun ammo. Loaded to the 2650-2750 fps range with the above powder warning should be safe loads. Several manuals no have "service rifle" sections in them to guide.

    With cast bullets getting to where the rifle functions and feed may be more an issue.

    One very rough indicator is to shot a block of lake city and leave lay then your loads and see where the empties match up ejecting on a soft surface

  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy Stewbaby's Avatar
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    The CMP just cautions to stay at 180 gr or below with commercial ammo. Good springs and a good grease job are the most important items that are most often overlooked.

    From CMP:

  7. #47
    Boolit Master

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    Modernized Garand

    There was an article in a recent American Rifleman magazine about updating the Garand and one section caught my eye.

    Many modern factory loads exist for the .30-’06 Sprg. that exceed the specifications set for military ammunition originally intended for the Garand. To take advantage of some of them, and to avoid damage to the rifle, a change to the gas system is necessary. A few different concepts have been devised, usually involving modification of the gas plug. I chose the Ported Gas Plug ($40) by Garand Gear, an install-it-and-forget-it solution.
    Two Garand gas plugs on white background.

    In essence, its hollowed-out base increases the gas cylinder’s overall volume, thereby effectively flattening the pressure curve of propellant gases acting on the piston at the end of the operating rod. Think of it as insurance against a bent operating rod and limited license to explore a wider range of ammunition offerings. Installation simply involves turning out the original gas plug and turning in the new one, which accepts 1/4”-square socket drive bit.

    Shoot Safe,
    Mike

    Retired Telephone Man
    NRA Endowment Member
    Marion Road Gun Club
    ( www.marionroad.com )

  8. #48
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    As the debate carries on, I'll stick with the starting level loads for service rifles and light cast loads in my Garand. I have other rifles if I feel the need for speed. Here's some load data for those who wish to play;
    https://www.bearblain.com/Service%20...0Loadings.html

  9. #49
    Boolit Buddy Stewbaby's Avatar
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    Hey Garand Guys

    That’s from the Hornady manual. Too conservative, or at least don’t hesitate to work up to its max if trying to duplicate M1, M2 and M72 load performance. The lawyers won in that Hornady load testing on starting loads and to some extent on max.

    I do agree the Master Po data is aged and does need to be reduced a couple of grains for starters.

    What the Garand was designed around (AP being a major player in WW2 Garands at 2700+ FPS):

    Last edited by Stewbaby; 08-09-2020 at 12:12 AM.

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy
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    IIRC John Garand was first having his rifle working on the .276 Pedersen round. This changed to a 172 grain 30-06 round then finally the 150 grain bullet as specified by the US Army.

    If you really want people’s head to spin get a Criterion Barrel in 6.5 Swede for your M1 Garand. I missed out on their last run but, will get one on the next go around and put it on one of my Garands.
    Last edited by M1fuzz; 08-09-2020 at 08:13 AM. Reason: Added info

  11. #51
    Boolit Master madsenshooter's Avatar
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    Seems to me the 6.5x55 would cause some problems in Garand clips as it is larger in diameter. I know partial sizing of 30-06 causes problems in mine. Makes the clips a tight fit in the receiver.
    "If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Heavy loads will batter the mechanism its been awhile since i played with a garand but my uncle ruined my 7400 rem that my grandpa bought brand new before he died by shooting heavy factory loads in it busted the face of the bolt
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy
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    A little tight but it works. Guy on YouTube has videos on it. And there is some reading on the net about it.

  14. #54
    Boolit Bub
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    Criterion still has 6.5 X 55 garand barrels for sale on their web site. I bought one earlier this year. Need to take the time to build it into a rifle!

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    I am not one to load heavy rounds for the M1, ok fine you shoot out 600 plus yards you might want a stout 168-175 grain bullet and a 2700fps velocity.
    with any load delivering more Gas volume and Pressure than needed you can have problems. Wear and tear , Bent rods and cracked receiver heals.

    All of my Garands are shot at 100-200 yards. I load all my ammo to a closer to minimum spec. Not only does it cut down on recoil, wear and tear I find better accuracy at some lower powder charge nodes. I fopr the life of me still cant understand why you would shoot the heavy hunting loads through the garand ( exception for hunting but I dont get that choice either) I have not seen any "hunting" ammo that is less expensive than M1 safe options.
    As for cast loads, If your approaching cast load pressures that will damage a M1 through the port pressure you must be using a very slow powder ?

  16. #56
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    ...............I have a bit of cast usage in my Garand. This rifle was from the first importation from Korea.







    ................ I had an 01 FFL for 20 years and this was close to one of my first purchases. When it arrived it was so butt ugly I figured I'd have to shoot it at the range while it was wrapped in a couple paper grocery bags. The stock was a beat to heck Beech or Birch thing with a big '93' painted in red on the buttstock with a 1.5" brush. The top handguard was a piece of paper thin Walnut that was apparently 'Boned' until it was as slick as fiberglass and as thin as a couple pieces of paper. The forward handguard was a piece of raw beech/birch (no finish) that stuck out 1/2 proud all over.

    I forget from whom I purchased the NOS wood. Probably GPC. In any event it was a VAST improvement from the 'As Delivered' specimen. I was told it was the later "Fat Wood" stock? Dunno, but that's what I was told. If anyone deciphers barrel markings, let me know. IIRC, one Garand aficionado at the range pulled the op rod back and said it was Navy re-barreled in 1965? However it WAS a Korean re-import.

    Fired 11-93, Sierra 168gr HPBT match, Rem 9 1/2 primer, 55.0 grs surplus WC852 ball FC cases 3x fired, 187 grs, FL sized. Fired off the bench@ 50 yards #1 Grp = 2436 fps, SD 20.8, 1.25" / 5 rnds.

    Same as above 2452 fps SD 5.7 2nd grp .75" / 4 rnds, 0ne 1.25" low of the grp.

    Same as above 2446 fps SD 7.7 grp

    Same as above 3rd grp @ 100 yards 3 x 1.5" 4=2.0" 5th is a mystery

    Fired 9-25-95:

    Lyman 311284 weight "As Cast" 216gr, 40.0 grs IMR 3031 powder, WLRP, LC 45 cases 192/193 gr. OAL: 3.237". Avrg vel: 2213 fps, ES: 15.3, SD: 6.1 50 yd accuracy was running about 2"/5 rnds.

    Elevation setting for 50 yards center hit = 100 yards. Elevation setting to hit 200 yard 8" plate = 325 yards.

    Forty rounds total fired, ejection was to right front. No problem working over the 200 yard plate. Fun load, your mileage may vary. Notes state "1st firing of cast lead in this rifle, no leading visible in bore after firing, none at cleaning but several black patches produced. Lube was Javelina (NLA as original) then thinned Lee Liquid Alox.

    ................Buckshot
    Father Grand Caster watches over you my brother. Go now and pour yourself a hot one. May the Sacred Silver Stream be with you always

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  17. #57
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check