ADvertise hereRotoMetals2RepackboxTitan Reloading
MidSouth Shooters SupplyLee PrecisionWidenersInline Fabrication

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Question about neck turning tools

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Tazlaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Conway, AR
    Posts
    176

    Question about neck turning tools

    I’m interested in making 300 blackout out of 223/556 range brass. I know some manufacturers brass is too thick in the “new” formed neck for the 300blk. Therefore, I am looking at a neck turning set up for this (and maybe other 30cal rounds). Would anyone care to share what is good and what to stay away from? I probably won’t convert more than 2k-3k rounds. I will need everything associated with turning—tool, cutter, mandrel....

    Thank you!
    Just knowing enough to do it, is not enough to do it right! -Taz

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    stubshaft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Southernmost State of the Union
    Posts
    4,334
    After having shot benchrest years ago I am a firm believer in neck concentricity and it's effect on accuracy. That being said I have a couple of turning tools set up for my most often used calibers like .22 and 6mm. I generally use KM tools for no other reason than they work well and are very similar to the Marquardt turning tool I used for years. I get lazy in my old age and use a Lee case trimmer base in a cordless drill to hold and turn the cases. It is a little spendy to buy the whole set up but if you are serious about accuracy then it is money well spent. You would be amazed at the amount of runout in factory new brass even Lapua.
    Last edited by stubshaft; 03-22-2020 at 11:22 PM.
    Without the dark night, you would never see the bright stars...

    You can live forever if you give up all of the things that make it worthwhile.

    Why a .45...Because they don't make a .46!

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Outside Rolla, Missouri
    Posts
    1,199
    I turn mine on a lathe and stub is right...necks generally suck.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

    NRA Benefactor 2008

  4. #4
    Boolit Master


    Bookworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Central Oklahoma, on a dirt road.
    Posts
    1,100
    I have only uses K&M, and only for 1 cartridge; 7.62x54r. I have used it for 2 different rifles, with 2 different neck requirements.

    I like the simplicity of the tool, the adjustments are easy, but perhaps not easily repeatable without some fiddling. However, generally neck turning is something one does only once to each case, so I'm not sure how important repeatability is to this exercise.

    I set it up and turn all the cases of one batch before moving on to something else. It may take more than one session, but that's not a problem for me.

    Looking at the website is somewhat confusing, or at least it was for me. I called and explained what it was I was wanting to do, they were very helpful, even cutting a mandrel to custom diameter.

    It seems expensive to get started, but it's a one-time purchase for most of the equipment, then just different mandrels and perhaps different cutter blade for other cartridges.
    Last edited by Bookworm; 03-21-2020 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Spelling
    "Varium et mutabile semper femina." - Virgil
    Man, ain't it the truth....

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    1,720
    Just a suggestion based upon my experience with neck turning., If you want to turn necks for the more accurate, target style cases, then proceed. I have a neck turner, a few actually, and have turned necks on a lot of cases. Some were even for sloppy factory chambers (only did a hundred or so in those calibers, no real accuracy gain achieved, but I felt better about concentricity)

    I would not turn necks on 300BLK brass. It is a huge time investment and likely not a 1 time deal. As the cases grow in length, you'll need to keep track of the doughnut and may need to either neck turn or ream later.

    I reserve neck turning for calibers in bolt action rifles with huge accuracy potential or wildcat/tight neck calibers that require it. I also weight sort, true primer pockets and flash holes in those calibers. Neck turning is usually a part of the entire brass prep.

    My suggestions is to source brass that will fit the chamber after conversion and run with it. By all means, get a neck Turner to learn with and cleanup some case necks in your bolt action calibers. But IMO, it would be a waste of time and money for me to get a neck turner for 300BLK. I converted about 600 cases once. I would have trashed them before neck turning if they hadn't worked (I tested a percentage of them before completing the whole lot to make sure they worked) If you're getting it to learn and turn your varmint, target calibers, and want to try it on 300BLK, that would be a good idea.

    To me it wouldn't make sense to have 300BLK conversions as the motivating factor for the purchase of a neck turning setup.

    I'd never tell anyone not to get tools, hardware, or reloading stuff, but please evaluate what you want to do with it and consider the realities of time and net improvement.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    oklahoma
    Posts
    1,720
    To answer your question about equipment, I have sinclair neck turners as well as the RCBS neck turner with the Trim Pro case trimmer. I have used a couple of others as well. I like my Sinclair units. There are a lot of quality options out there.
    Last edited by BK7saum; 03-21-2020 at 12:23 PM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    18,046
    Quote Originally Posted by BK7saum View Post
    Just a suggestion based upon my experience with neck turning., If you want to turn necks for the more accurate, target style cases, then proceed. I have a neck turner, a few actually, and have turned necks on a lot of cases. Some were even for sloppy factory chambers (only did a hundred or so in those calibers, no real accuracy gain achieved, but I felt better about concentricity)

    I would not turn necks on 300BLK brass. It is a huge time investment and likely not a 1 time deal. As the cases grow in length, you'll need to keep track of the doughnut and may need to either neck turn or ream later.

    I reserve neck turning for calibers in bolt action rifles with huge accuracy potential or wildcat/tight neck calibers that require it. I also weight sort, true primer pockets and flash holes in those calibers. Neck turning is usually a part of the entire brass prep.

    My suggestions is to source brass that will fit the chamber after conversion and run with it. By all means, get a neck Turner to learn with and cleanup some case necks in your bolt action calibers. But IMO, it would be a waste of time and money for me to get a neck turner for 300BLK. I converted about 600 cases once. I would have trashed them before neck turning if they hadn't worked (I tested a percentage of them before completing the whole lot to make sure they worked) If you're getting it to learn and turn your varmint, target calibers, and want to try it on 300BLK, that would be a good idea.

    To me it wouldn't make sense to have 300BLK conversions as the motivating factor for the purchase of a neck turning setup.

    I'd never tell anyone not to get tools, hardware, or reloading stuff, but please evaluate what you want to do with it and consider the realities of time and net improvement.
    Concur with BK7saum. I also have turned and inside neck reamed a lot of cases. I use a Forster case trimmer with the Forster neck turning attachment. The adapter for the replacing the handle to use an electric screw driver is very useful if a lot of cases need turned. I use old Lee Target Loaders to inside neck ream some 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 308W, 30x60 XCB and 30-06 cases.

    If you are using the BO cases in a bolt gun then youmight turn the necks. However, if for use in a gas gun then sourcing brass that doesn't need turning would be the better option as mentioned.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy Scrounge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    OKC Metro
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by sharps4590 View Post
    I turn mine on a lathe and stub is right...necks generally suck.
    A little explication would be appreciated. I'm not really new to reloading, but there was about a 30 year gap in the middle there, and I'm getting more interested in accuracy these days. I also have one of the chinese 7x10 mini-lathes and an Atlas TH42 that are usable with only a bit of work, and a restoration project South Bend Heavy 10L. I recently got a Mosin Nagant with an oversize bore, and I've had a nice Springfield 1903 sporter for a few years. I'm also not a machinist, just a wannabe who finally started moving on an old dream. I'm taking a class in machining, and building my own small machine shop, but mostly what I know of lathe work is what I've learned in my class, not what you could call real experience.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    England,Ar
    Posts
    6,196
    K&M makes a nice line of neck turning tools including expanders. Sinclair also offers a nice line of turning tools. I personally like the semi-custom tools like K&M, Sinclair, PMA, Hart, ect better than the run of the mill RCBS and Hornady tools. The exception is the little tool from Forster. Besides accuracy the higher end tools are easier to adjust.

    The Accurateshooter web site and Varmintal both have good articles about the hows and whys of neck turning. Well worth a look.

    If it wasn't for the virus thing I would let you try out one or two different tools. But with my Wife being on anti-rejection meds we are pretty much being hermits.

    Edited to add;
    You really need some type of measuring device. A tubing mic or a ball mic are about the standard. Sinclair has a few bench mounted tools that use a dial indicator.
    Last edited by lightman; 03-21-2020 at 10:44 AM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


    Bookworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Central Oklahoma, on a dirt road.
    Posts
    1,100
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrounge View Post
    ..... I recently got a Mosin Nagant with an oversize bore....
    And by what I'm certain is an inexplicable coincidence, I recently sold a Mosin with an oversize bore.....
    "Varium et mutabile semper femina." - Virgil
    Man, ain't it the truth....

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    2,244
    I've come to love my old Forster (hand held) neck turner. It's simple enough to adjust and their carbide cutter with a small cut-out for case shoulders make it work very well.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    11,611
    If you want to do 2000-3000 your talking a major undertaking for neck turning especially with a hand tool. A powered set up may be better here. I gave turned a lot of necks for tight necked chambers, wildcats and when reforming brass as needed. I have some set ups made to use in a drill press and a foster type case holder, this is faster and easier on the wrists and hands than a hand tool. Teaming in a die might be a better way to go faster and simpler to do. Setting the turner to size can be a tricky operation. While reaming wont give you quite as accurate neck wall thickness as turning its very close. If the chamber isnt a tight neck reaming should be fine. If you can and truly want a fitted neck then turning is the way to go.

    Buy the die from Sinclair to expand on the turners mandrel before turning this gives an ideal fit to the mandrel for turning. A good tool there are a few out there. Mandrell in the desired size. A case holder most are similar to a tap handle. some case lube. A good set of ball mikes, you need to know what you have to the .0001. A fine sharpening stone, eventually the cutter will get dull and this will help to touch it up.

    I use imperial sizing die wax when turning to lube the mandrel and cutter a shallow dip of the case neck into it mount and turn the neck this lubes the mandrel and also helps to give the best finish. Then deburr and chamfer case mouths. A sharp tool with a small radius on the point works very well. In the drill press I normally run in the 1800-2000 rpm range. This with the die wax gives a glass like finish and holds just a little over .0001 on thickness. My cutters are balanced so the rpms dont induce vibrations.
    In the lathe a mandrel could be chucked and turned to size Dont remove once turned since its dead true at this point. cases pushed onto it and a cup live center used to support. Turn with a right hand tool towards the tail stock Here its going to be harder to maintain size and finish.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,804
    I convert and turn necks on BO using the RCBS hand tool. Set the cut with feeler gauge, case head in large chuck elec. drill , tool in hand. Works great and is pretty fast. Most PPU is thick but good. Some odd ball stuff not so.
    PP usually go first so once has been enough. The mic adjustment stuff is not really needed, just set and lock down, turn. Anything with good carbide cutter will work.
    Last edited by popper; 03-21-2020 at 01:00 PM.
    Whatever!

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    209
    K&M is my choice for neck turning.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,466
    I have 6 or 8 different neck turning tools including an original Marquart, one made by Ferris Pindell, shop made Marquart copies, Forster and K&M.

    For my accuracy rifles I have a rougher and a finisher set up for each rifle that is never adjusted. Once set they are left alone.

    For your application neck turning is only a metal removal process to get clearance.
    The tool that works best for that is the Forster. It is easy to set and easy to use. It mows the material off easily.

    If you have a lathe it is even easier to clamp the turning tool in the tool post and turn using power.
    You just need a good way to hold the cases in the chuck.
    EDG

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NC Arkansas
    Posts
    659
    If you want to learn a little machining, make a die that will size the outside of the neck to the finished size you want. Make the die about 1" longer than the finished size of the case with a smooth bore that is concentric with the case. Then make a reamer that is a sliding fit in the neck of the die. Push the case into the die to size the neck, then ream the neck before removing the case from the die. Properly made, the die and reamer will form a case that is concentric and ready to load.
    Spell check doesn't work in Chrome, so if something is spelled wrong, it's just a typo that I missed.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Outside Rolla, Missouri
    Posts
    1,199
    Scrounge, I owe you an apology. Yes, I do turn my necks on a lathe and perhaps I posted a bit too soon. I'm not doing it so much for accuracy as to get the necks of re-formed cases thin enough to chamber in some old rifle and still have enough neck thickness and tension to hold a bullet. But, my measurements show that after my hobby/hack machinists efforts they are a LOT more concentric than before turning.

    If you're taking a class you're probably light years ahead of me. I had a little teaching on a lathe in tech school almost 50 years ago. Since I bought my lathe 5-6 years ago everything I've learned has been on my own or by asking one of two friends who are machinists...and my nephew who was a lathe operator for 5 years through college. Doggone kid is too smart for his own good...anyway.

    What I do, and don't laugh, is lightly chuck up a case in the chuck. I know my 4 jaw chuck would probably be more accurate but, by using a live center in the tail stock they run as true as I could probably make them run in a 4 jaw. Anyway, using the front groove in the jaws of the 3 jaw chuck to hold the case head, I'll gently run the live center into the mouth of the case taking extreme care NOT to flare the mouth, tighten the chuck gently when the live center comes up ever so slightly snug, then locking down the live center. Take off however much you need, stopping short of the exact dimension so you can smooth up the case neck and still be where you need/want to be.

    Now, I know there is probably all kinds of things wrong with the way I do it...and please, I am open to suggestion!!! However, if you don't go about it like you're killin' snakes it works very well for me. To reiterate, I'm not doing it for accuracy but, case neck thickness and concentricity are always better after I turn the necks than they were before. The better the brass I start with, the better the outcome. RWS seems to be the absolute best followed closely by Norma...and I have no experience with Lapua. For case forming that doesn't require as much work, Remington is very easy to work with.

    Edit: Evidently I didn't "turn the page" before I posted and missed the posts by ulav and EDG. I particularly like ulav's suggestion which to me appears to be the most precise and, EDG's method is a bit similar to what I describe.
    Last edited by sharps4590; 03-22-2020 at 08:19 AM.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

    NRA Benefactor 2008

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy Scrounge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    OKC Metro
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by Bookworm View Post
    And by what I'm certain is an inexplicable coincidence, I recently sold a Mosin with an oversize bore.....
    I'm not absolutely saying you'd recognize it, but yes, you'd recognize it! I bought a hundred rounds of PPU pretty, new, shiny, brass, and I'm trying to bulldoze my way to the reloading bench. I'd gotten a path clear, and made the mistake of asking my son to clear out the laundry room so I could work on the dryer. He piled all the laundry baskets and bags of laundry in that cleared path. Gotta be a little careful now, as some of the "debris" in the path includes a rawhide & cottonwood-tree'd western saddle built in 1868. And some more boxes from that rascally brother of mine.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy Scrounge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    OKC Metro
    Posts
    189
    Quote Originally Posted by sharps4590 View Post
    Scrounge, I owe you an apology. Yes, I do turn my necks on a lathe and perhaps I posted a bit too soon...

    Edit: Evidently I didn't "turn the page" before I posted and missed the posts by ulav and EDG. I particularly like ulav's suggestion which to me appears to be the most precise and, EDG's method is a bit similar to what I describe.
    I'm not now, and not ever going to be a "real" machinist. Took a class in high school almost 47 years ago, and liked machining, but wasn't smart enough to realize I should take another class. So I read about machining, and drooled over lathes when I could get a look at one. Or shapers. Those being the tools I got to use in the class. I got my first lathe (or lathe-shaped object) about 12 years ago, from Harbor Freight. 7x10 mini-lathe. I finally figured out that it wasn't really a problem with the lathe, though I did manage to make a couple of useful things with it, but more of headspace problem with my head. Couldn't remember how to do stuff well enough to get things to work properly. SWMBO suggested I might should take another class. Last time I ignored advice from her on that subject, things didn't go so good. So I found a class, and started taking it. That was February 2015. Started full time, but switched to part time before I quite killed myself. I've since added an old Atlas TH42 that works fine now that I'm not quite so ignorant, and a South Bend Heavy 10L restoration project. Also a Lewis shaper. I've found that there is a sensitivity of touch you need to use calipers and micrometers to get accurate measurements, and I'm finally doing well at that. I'm almost done with the course, only a dozen or so small projects left. But I've been frozen about there for most of the past year. There are some more basic things that I need to go back over and refresh my memory. More headspace issues. Believe me, I won't be laughing at you! You're welcome to laugh at me, though. And I can see where concentrically would just exactly what you'd need to get the best accuracy out of an old rifle. I think a 1930's Mosin would count as old, and my other rifle is a 1903 Springfield sporter. That probably counts, too! So I'm going to be dragging the baby lathe into the loading bench, I think, and giving some things a try. I've also got an ER-32 collet chuck to go with the 3 & 4-jaw chucks, and I may just make some collets to go with it for holding brass. Stuff like this is one of the reasons I wanted to get a lathe all those years ago. I'm going to be studying all the comments, and practicing to see what I can reasonably do. Thanks to you and the others who responded!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    South Western NC
    Posts
    2,244
    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    .... This with the die wax gives a glass like finish and holds just a little over .0001 on thickness. .
    Few of us can afford a mike that can read 1/10,000 of an inch and our common SAAMI specified chambers wouldn't see any difference to 1/1,000 inch - or more - anyway. ???

    Don't know how many cases a Forster carbide cutter can do before resharpening, I've never had to touch mine.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check