Inline FabricationMidSouth Shooters SupplyRepackboxWideners
Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2ADvertise hereTitan Reloading

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 36 of 36

Thread: Gas piston less hold sensitive my butt!

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    267
    You're comparing a CO2 gun to a spring piston gun..... Apples to oranges
    If you must have that much power and can't live with the hold sensitivity....spend the extra $$$ and get a PCP airgun

  2. #22
    Vendor Sponsor

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    8,010
    3B: Make sure you are not tilting the rifle even a little bit. Maybe one of those bubble levels mounted on the scope. For the level of accuracy you are trying for,,, you will have to do everything exactly the same way every single time. That's a tall order.

    I once had a FWB 300. It was the most accurate gun I have ever owned. It was not possible to blame the gun for anything as it would put every pellet, (the expensive match pellets that come in a 100 round packages and you're not supposed to touch them with your fingers) in the same hole for as long as you could stand to sit there and do it.

    I figured out quickly that if I missed it was entirely my fault. The absolute minutia of shooting all guns is amplified in Airguns simply because the the distances are not as great as with firearms. So it becomes a Aim Small, Miss Small routine. All Olympic Target Airgun Matches are shot at 10 meters. Some Field Target Matches are shot at varying distances from 10 to 50 meters. The Germans have had this stuff figured out for decades.

    Both my .177 HW 35's have iron sights. The 35E has the stock open sights, and the EB has a Beeman/Williams Receiver Sight. I liek shooting those guns most as it is challenging to hit a 1.5" circle at 10 yards in my shop and more challenging to actually hit every shot well inside the borders of the black. I also am shooting off hand which you should start to do more of. Your gun shoots close enough and it appears you have plenty of varmints to shoot at so why not shoot offhand and take the scope off and shoot with the open sights on the gun It would add a new dimension to your shooting instead of chasing perfection which only results in frustration.

    There is an excellent article in the current American Rifleman (with the Colt Python on the cover) about being a Rifleman and the different aspects of the different types of rifle shooting. It is a good read and covers Precision Shooting, Classic Shooting (Field Shooting) and Defensive Shooting. All of which use different skill sets to accomplish their intended end result. As I get older and more frustrated with our societal decay, I find myself enjoying Defensive Shooting more and Defensive Shooting with Shotguns most of all. I also shoot my rifles and pistols in those games, but I like the shotguns the best as they don't rely on pinpoint accuracy as much as they demand higher levels of gun handling. I also tend to regard accuracy in terms of my guns ability to hit a man sized target in a short period of time. A rifle that will do 2-3" at 100 yards is sufficient for this, and a shotgun that will put three slugs inside 4-6" at 50 yards is more than adequate for these purposes. Those skills also may come in handy in the future, which may result in a serious need for me to be able to employ those skills for the actual intended purpose.

    Just a few minutes ago, I just barely missed a Mocking Bird in my back yard at about 15 yards from the sitting position. (Open sighted HW35E) But I doubt I'll see him again any time soon as he got the message. I consider that to be a win!

    Randy

    Then I missed it again twice, 10 minutes later, now I suck.
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 03-22-2020 at 02:53 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,218
    After lazer surgery I can see a country mile but close up is fuzzy. Open sights are not on my vocabulary any more. I still shoot my vaquero and self defense handguns with opens but I have to hold them as far out as possible from my eyes to try and see them clearly.

  4. #24
    Vendor Sponsor

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    8,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripplebeards View Post
    After lazer surgery I can see a country mile but close up is fuzzy. Open sights are not on my vocabulary any more. I still shoot my vaquero and self defense handguns with opens but I have to hold them as far out as possible from my eyes to try and see them clearly.
    That's good because all you need to focus on is the Front Sight.

    Hold the sight alignment in place with your cheek weld and then put the Front Sight on the target and let fly.

    That's all there is to it.

    Come on, you can try it? When have I steered you wrong?

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,218
    It’s getting to that point. I just re sighted it in again about 20 min ago. It was an inch low again at 10 yards. I have it hitting in the exact same pellet hole again. If it shifts again the optic is coming off. It dose have fiber optic front and rear sights which will help.

  6. #26
    Vendor Sponsor

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    8,010
    The sights on that gun looked nice. You will have to accept a little less than perfect accuracy, but the satisfaction you get from shooting Iron Sights far exceeds that of using a Scope IMHO.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,360
    I tell folk that want to hunt with their spring guns that they need to sight them in and practice with them, from the same position they will use hunting. All recoiling airguns are “hold sensitive”, they will generally recoil away from the hold. The more solid the more it moves away. The up side, learn to shoot a “spring” gun and you will have the repeability in hold and the followthru to shoot most anything well. There is LOTS of barrel dwell time with springguns, and they are recoiling and moving while the pellet is in the barrel. Shoot, the gun recoils slightly to the rear before the pressure even starts to build, piston moving forward. Then the piston created enough pressure to begin slowing down while Starting to accelerate the pellet. Then it stops against the air cuss ion and the end of the tube giving the forward recoil. Pellet Still is in the barrel! Follow thru is mandatory, keep the sights on the target till the pellet hits the target. Consistent hold yields consistent “movement”. Practice and check zero from field positions, that’s the only group size that counts with a hunting gun.
    ďYou donít practice until you get it right. You practice until you canít get it wrong.Ē Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,218
    I’ll see if it is still the same POA later today. I checked it a day ago after I re zeroed it in with an artillery hold and my hand about a half foot in front of the trigger guard. It seems to be holding so far. I took out some feathers at about 35 yards with it. I hit exactly where I aimed... in the neck. Hopefully I have it figured out with everyone’s advise.

    The browning 800 express “spring” 22 cal pistol that has a spring built in for recoil absorption isn’t hold sensitive at all like my rifle.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
    sutherpride59's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Living in Georgia but from Texas
    Posts
    442
    I gave up on break barrels the day I bought a 25 cal marauder. Iíll never mess with their hold sensitive @## ever again. Not worth the time or money.
    I have danced with the devil, luckily she was stupid and didnít hire a lawyer!

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,218
    I shot and missed the other day at some backyard feathered varmints. I noticed my hand was further up the stock. I made sure to correct the issue today. My hand is a couple inches away from the trigger guard. Two for two grackles on the ground. One was about 35 yards away and was free handed. If I am any further up my stock than 5 inches away from my trigger guard my POA I’ll be off. So I confident to say my optic is not the issue. Hitting feathers with the H&N terminators sound like a 4th of July snap cap exploding when connecting if not a little louder! I’m going to assume springers are like shooting an Poorly bedded rifle.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 04-04-2020 at 11:22 AM.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,218
    I just brained some fur at 20 yards with a free hand hold as I described holding the fore end a few inches away from the trigger guard. Firing up the croc pot! I’m finding out it hits exact POA when I’m not leaning against anything when using it for pest elimination.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 04-06-2020 at 12:44 PM.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,713
    I'm over a month into my gas ram HW90 in .25 and have gone back to a normal hold on the gun and have gone away from the "loose" hold, between me getting better and the gun getting worked in, I think I have the bruiser figured out., I had to play with diff. bases and mounts just to keep the scope solid on the gun, and that was part of the problem. I think I'll order some of those Diana "spring" bases if there are any other probs.

  13. #33
    Vendor Sponsor

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    8,010
    Now you guys do know that your Scope Mount needs to have a stop pin that fits in one of the holes in the top of the receiver to stop it from moving,,, Right?

    I try to use one piece mounts any time I can and UTG makes decent ones with the stop pin for about $12 from Pyramyd Air. 3 pinch screws so you can really reef on them if you feel the need to. Just get all three the same torque. You kind of need one of those Torque Wrenches to do this.

    I used these individual mounts on my Bug Buster Scope because the one piece mount wouldn't fit on the scope due to the distance between the rings.. The rear one has a stop pin also. I took it off after I shot those good groups with the JSB and H&N pellets and shoot that gun with the stock open sights now as a practice gun.

    All these mounts are nicely made,,, in China,,, but the quality is good enough to overlook their trying to kill us with the disease. The price is right. Besides I bought them several years ago when China was still our friend.

    I see their US Market Share dropping dramatically from now on!

    Randy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100464629.JPG 
Views:	3 
Size:	89.2 KB 
ID:	259884   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100464672.JPG 
Views:	4 
Size:	113.4 KB 
ID:	259885  
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 04-06-2020 at 06:25 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    3,218
    Yep, my rifle came with a scope ring stopper or should I say a scope stop.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    1,623
    Myself I'd put witness marks on where the bbl meets the receiver and make sure it's locking up correctly and staying that way.

    You really should hold your rifle with your lead hand just in front of the trigger guard free floating everything in front of your hold.

    What your actually seeing/experiencing is +/- 4/100th's of an inch of flex/movement in your bbl.

    Hold left/pellet left
    Hold right/pellet right

    To find the amount of movement of your hold:

    16 x (1"/360")

    16='s bbl length
    1" ='s amount of poi change
    360" ='s # of inches in 10yds

    good luck

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by sutherpride59 View Post
    I gave up on break barrels the day I bought a 25 cal marauder. I’ll never mess with their hold sensitive @## ever again. Not worth the time or money.
    Well put When things get back toward normal and I have a little extra $$ money thats what I'm going to do I'm bullheaded and have tried for years to make this work some days I'm amazed at how small my groups are and then when my technique is just a little off I amazed at how terrible they are.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check