ADvertise hereMidSouth Shooters SupplyRepackboxInline Fabrication
Lee PrecisionRotoMetals2WidenersTitan Reloading

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 49

Thread: Red Dot - subsonic 30-30 loads

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold Terminatorret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    23

    Red Dot - subsonic 30-30 loads

    I just decided to contribute some load data that I’ve been working. I don’t need full power 30-30 for my particular local needs. Subsonic rounds don’t travel as far, are easier on my ears, are plenty lethal for my 40-100 yard open shots on my land. Please, I don’t want this to tun into a “not enough knock down power…that’s inhumane to hunt with” discussion. I just want to share my data for those of you who may have wanted information on such a cartridge load.

    Rifle – Savage 340E (1:12 twist, 22" barrel) with Bushnell Sportview 4-12x40 (Japan)
    Chrono – Oehler 35P set at 10 feet
    Powder – new stock Alliant Red Dot
    Primers – Winchester WLR Large Standard Rifle
    Brass – mixed
    Bullets – Missouri Bullet Co. 165gr .311 #4 Whitetail (with no gas check)
    and Hunter’s Supply (RCBS 180?) 193gr .311 GCFP (with no gas check)
    Reloading equipment – all Lee dies, Lee Factory Crimp, manual Redding scale
    Minimum shots fired - 10

    Here’s my bottom-line subsonic results:

    For 165gr with 5.5 grains Red Dot (estimated BC=0.235):
    Highest recorded velocity: 1106 fps
    Lowest recorded velocity: 1085 fps
    Extreme velocity spread: 21 fps
    Mean or Average velocity: 1095 fps
    Standard Deviation: 8 fps

    For 193gr with 6.1 grains Red Dot (estimated BC=0.255):
    Highest recorded velocity: 1110 fps
    Lowest recorded velocity: 1087 fps
    Extreme velocity spread: 23 fps
    Mean or Average velocity: 1099 fps
    Standard Deviation: 7 fps

    Hope this is useful to some of you.
    Semper fi.
    Last edited by Terminatorret; 03-18-2020 at 09:15 PM. Reason: additional info

  2. #2
    Banner Sponsor

    lar45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,839
    Those are some very low Standard deviations.
    What kind of groups are you getting?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    2,373
    Do a search for 'The Load', or 'Red Dot rifle loads'.

    There's several old articles by, and about the guru that developed it.
    Its some pretty interesting reading.
    It wasn't playing the blame game, finding fault, and complaining about every little thing that made America great.
    It was God, guns, and guts.


    Never pick a fight with old people.
    If they don't think they can win it: They'll just kill you.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,387
    How were the groups? I had good luck with similar amount of Red Dot and a Seaco 140 gr pb in 3030 Win 94. Need to try it with 31141 now!
    ďYou donít practice until you get it right. You practice until you canít get it wrong.Ē Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold Terminatorret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    23
    My standard deviations were direct from my Oehler 35P printouts. Yes, I was pleased, however I was VERY precise with my manual powder measurement. My groups were so-so...but it was a windy, overcast day here in East Texas. I didn't bring my targets inside, but under 2 inch groups. My target was a precisely measured 67 yards away...hitting center mass at 67 yards will give me a plus/minus one inch impact out to 77 yards with an 1100 fps projectile according to the "Maximum Point Blank Range Calculator" at http://www.shooterscalculator.com/. Projectile drop will be 4.5" at 100 yards. I can live with that.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    5,633
    Those do seem like some very low standard deviations, sounds like you did a great job loading.

    Those little Savage 340s really are neat rifles, much better than they've been given credit for.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold Terminatorret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    23
    I'm hoping that "starting subsonic" and "remaining subsonic" will give me an accuracy advantage ballisically by avoiding the turbulance associated with the bullet transitioning from above, to below the sound barrier. During the transion (supersonic to subsonic), buffeting occurs which can cause projectile wabble. Don't know how much, but just another excuse for me to remain subsonic!
    BTW, here in East Texas with all the trees, I'll be lucky to see a 100 yard shot. I've cleared pasture, but still only see a 50-60 yard shot at most. My "rifle range lane" is cleared to about 140 yards for shooting purposes, but deer and hogs don't hang-out there.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    261
    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    Do a search for 'The Load', or 'Red Dot rifle loads'.

    There's several old articles by, and about the guru that developed it.
    Its some pretty interesting reading.
    Careful... as I recall 30-30 doesn’t meet the size criteria in that article for “The Load”.

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold Terminatorret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    23
    Correct. "The Load" calls for 13gr Red Dot as a universal load in higher SAAMI pressure calibers...no, no, no...not for 30-30. And definately not subsonic. Cut that in half...that's the velocities I'm working. Heavy and slow is my creedo for this locale and my circumstances.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    1,573
    I've been saying for a long time that one of the greatest benefits of reloading is the subsonic loads we create. Can't go to town and buy those.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    jimkim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Dodge Co. GA. Between the Ocmulgee and Little Ocmulgee rivers.
    Posts
    1,221
    One of my favorite 30-30 loads is 6.0gr of Red Dot/Promo under an Ideal 308241 152gr RN PB boolit. I get 1100-1150 fps with my 336.

    Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

    US Govt mantra. if it's moving tax it, if it's still moving regulate it, if it stops moving subsidize it

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    toallmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    easternshore of va.
    Posts
    2,343
    I do something very similar with unique . It's a lot of fun and a pound of powder goes a long way .

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    5,633
    Quote Originally Posted by djryan13 View Post
    Careful... as I recall 30-30 doesn’t meet the size criteria in that article for “The Load”.
    Yep. I see this all the time, everybody thinks that 13 grains of Red Dot is universal and don't even think about it. Personally, it seems too hot to me even in .30-06 for best accuracy, don't even want to think about that much fast powder in a .30-30, especially with heavy bullets.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    5,633
    I have found 700X to be good powder in such loads as well.

  15. #15
    Vendor Sponsor



    randyrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North West Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,635
    I need to get back to my 30-30 and work up Sub Sonic loads again.
    This thread reminds me the fun I had finding the best accurate subsonic loads in the 30-30 using pistol powders. I'm going a bit heavier though,( cast real soft to make them heavier) 180 gr Lee cast soft- C309-170 F. Seems I did get some loads to work very good without GCs, hopefully I saved those notes.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Las Cruces, NM
    Posts
    1,531
    If you want to find some more low vel loads for various cartridges....

    http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

    I use Blue Dot in my .308, just because I have a bunch I don't use in anything else. An interesting thing I found after I got a chronograph is that my loads were in the transition zone when it was colder outside. They did well out to 100 and sometimes 200yd. I ended up dropping them to under 1000fps (7gn Blue Dot with 180gn Lee bullets), and that is still in the lower range of the transition zone when it is cold outside. The nice thing is you don't get the 'crack' until you get up closer to full supersonic.

    I also found that my reject bullets did very well at the low velocities. I have quite a few groups well under 1" at 100yd. My theory is that the lower spin rate means the bullet defects don't affect the flight as much.

    And these 'pop gun' loads are just silly fun to shoot

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ball Ground, GA
    Posts
    124
    Around 5.5 to 6.0 700x is also my preferred load only because I have more of it than Red Dot. I'm using 150 and 170 boolits. My Winchester 94 is zeroed on the highest iron sight setting on the 700x load and the lowest setting with my deer load at 100. Makes it easy to shoot both with the same gun.
    Tony

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Fargo ND
    Posts
    5,362
    I have found 4.6 gr of Red Dot to 6 grains to be very accurate.

    The 4.6 gr load I use the Lee .314 90 gr TC TL boolit sized to .311.

    The 6 grain load I use the Lee .312 185 gr gc.

    Both were very accurate, quiet, I consider the 90 gr load a small game load for rabbits, grouse, squirrel.
    The other for anything I want very dead very quietly.

    Both work well in my Win 94 AE post 64, and my Handi rifle single shot with a Truglo 2x Red Dot. I am considerably more accurate with the single shot. It stacks them up nicely at 100y.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Communism closing in!
    Posts
    3,318
    Question here: Do you fellows pre-position your powder for each shot as in raising the muzzle to settle the powder against the primer?

    Three44s
    Quit fretting about climate change. Itís how much stronger gravity is getting every day that is bothering me!

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold Terminatorret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    23
    I personally have never thought pre-positioning powder was necessary with Red Dot. I don't use any filler, either. I have never experienced any problems with the rounds igniting.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check