Red Dot - subsonic 30-30 loads

[Terminatorret]

I just decided to contribute some load data that I’ve been working. I don’t need full power 30-30 for my particular local needs. Subsonic rounds don’t travel as far, are easier on my ears, are plenty lethal for my 40-100 yard open shots on my land. Please, I don’t want this to tun into a “not enough knock down power…that’s inhumane to hunt with” discussion. I just want to share my data for those of you who may have wanted information on such a cartridge load.

Rifle – Savage 340E (1:12 twist, 22" barrel) with Bushnell Sportview 4-12x40 (Japan)
Chrono – Oehler 35P set at 10 feet
Powder – new stock Alliant Red Dot
Primers – Winchester WLR Large Standard Rifle
Brass – mixed
Bullets – Missouri Bullet Co. 165gr .311 #4 Whitetail (with no gas check)
and Hunter’s Supply (RCBS 180?) 193gr .311 GCFP (with no gas check)
Reloading equipment – all Lee dies, Lee Factory Crimp, manual Redding scale
Minimum shots fired - 10

Here’s my bottom-line subsonic results:

For 165gr with 5.5 grains Red Dot (estimated BC=0.235):
Highest recorded velocity: 1106 fps
Lowest recorded velocity: 1085 fps
Extreme velocity spread: 21 fps
Mean or Average velocity: 1095 fps
Standard Deviation: 8 fps

For 193gr with 6.1 grains Red Dot (estimated BC=0.255):
Highest recorded velocity: 1110 fps
Lowest recorded velocity: 1087 fps
Extreme velocity spread: 23 fps
Mean or Average velocity: 1099 fps
Standard Deviation: 7 fps

Hope this is useful to some of you.
Semper fi.

[lar45]

Those are some very low Standard deviations.
What kind of groups are you getting?

[Winger Ed.]

Do a search for 'The Load', or 'Red Dot rifle loads'.

There's several old articles by, and about the guru that developed it.
Its some pretty interesting reading.

[rking22]

How were the groups? I had good luck with similar amount of Red Dot and a Seaco 140 gr pb in 3030 Win 94. Need to try it with 31141 now!

[Terminatorret]

My standard deviations were direct from my Oehler 35P printouts. Yes, I was pleased, however I was VERY precise with my manual powder measurement. My groups were so-so...but it was a windy, overcast day here in East Texas. I didn't bring my targets inside, but under 2 inch groups. My target was a precisely measured 67 yards away...hitting center mass at 67 yards will give me a plus/minus one inch impact out to 77 yards with an 1100 fps projectile according to the "Maximum Point Blank Range Calculator" at http://www.shooterscalculator.com/. Projectile drop will be 4.5" at 100 yards. I can live with that.

[richhodg66]

Those do seem like some very low standard deviations, sounds like you did a great job loading.

Those little Savage 340s really are neat rifles, much better than they've been given credit for.

[Terminatorret]

I'm hoping that "starting subsonic" and "remaining subsonic" will give me an accuracy advantage ballisically by avoiding the turbulance associated with the bullet transitioning from above, to below the sound barrier. During the transion (supersonic to subsonic), buffeting occurs which can cause projectile wabble. Don't know how much, but just another excuse for me to remain subsonic!
BTW, here in East Texas with all the trees, I'll be lucky to see a 100 yard shot. I've cleared pasture, but still only see a 50-60 yard shot at most. My "rifle range lane" is cleared to about 140 yards for shooting purposes, but deer and hogs don't hang-out there.

[djryan13]

Do a search for 'The Load', or 'Red Dot rifle loads'.

There's several old articles by, and about the guru that developed it.
Its some pretty interesting reading.

Careful... as I recall 30-30 doesn’t meet the size criteria in that article for “The Load”.

[Terminatorret]

Correct. "The Load" calls for 13gr Red Dot as a universal load in higher SAAMI pressure calibers...no, no, no...not for 30-30. And definately not subsonic. Cut that in half...that's the velocities I'm working. Heavy and slow is my creedo for this locale and my circumstances.

[Iowa Fox]

I've been saying for a long time that one of the greatest benefits of reloading is the subsonic loads we create. Can't go to town and buy those.

[jimkim]

One of my favorite 30-30 loads is 6.0gr of Red Dot/Promo under an Ideal 308241 152gr RN PB boolit. I get 1100-1150 fps with my 336.

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

[toallmy]

I do something very similar with unique . It's a lot of fun and a pound of powder goes a long way .

[richhodg66]

Careful... as I recall 30-30 doesn’t meet the size criteria in that article for “The Load”.

Yep. I see this all the time, everybody thinks that 13 grains of Red Dot is universal and don't even think about it. Personally, it seems too hot to me even in .30-06 for best accuracy, don't even want to think about that much fast powder in a .30-30, especially with heavy bullets.

[richhodg66]

I have found 700X to be good powder in such loads as well.

[randyrat]

I need to get back to my 30-30 and work up Sub Sonic loads again.
This thread reminds me the fun I had finding the best accurate subsonic loads in the 30-30 using pistol powders. I'm going a bit heavier though,( cast real soft to make them heavier) 180 gr Lee cast soft- C309-170 F. Seems I did get some loads to work very good without GCs, hopefully I saved those notes.

[charlie b]

If you want to find some more low vel loads for various cartridges....

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I use Blue Dot in my .308, just because I have a bunch I don't use in anything else. An interesting thing I found after I got a chronograph is that my loads were in the transition zone when it was colder outside. They did well out to 100 and sometimes 200yd. I ended up dropping them to under 1000fps (7gn Blue Dot with 180gn Lee bullets), and that is still in the lower range of the transition zone when it is cold outside. The nice thing is you don't get the 'crack' until you get up closer to full supersonic.

I also found that my reject bullets did very well at the low velocities. I have quite a few groups well under 1" at 100yd. My theory is that the lower spin rate means the bullet defects don't affect the flight as much.

And these 'pop gun' loads are just silly fun to shoot

[ABJ]

Around 5.5 to 6.0 700x is also my preferred load only because I have more of it than Red Dot. I'm using 150 and 170 boolits. My Winchester 94 is zeroed on the highest iron sight setting on the 700x load and the lowest setting with my deer load at 100. Makes it easy to shoot both with the same gun.
Tony

[GhostHawk]

I have found 4.6 gr of Red Dot to 6 grains to be very accurate.

The 4.6 gr load I use the Lee .314 90 gr TC TL boolit sized to .311.

The 6 grain load I use the Lee .312 185 gr gc.

Both were very accurate, quiet, I consider the 90 gr load a small game load for rabbits, grouse, squirrel.
The other for anything I want very dead very quietly.

Both work well in my Win 94 AE post 64, and my Handi rifle single shot with a Truglo 2x Red Dot. I am considerably more accurate with the single shot. It stacks them up nicely at 100y.

[Three44s]

Question here: Do you fellows pre-position your powder for each shot as in raising the muzzle to settle the powder against the primer?

Three44s

[Terminatorret]

I personally have never thought pre-positioning powder was necessary with Red Dot. I don't use any filler, either. I have never experienced any problems with the rounds igniting.