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Thread: Trouble with 444 marlin

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Trouble with 444 marlin

    So I recently bought a JM stamped 444 Marlin (2006 I believe) with standard rifling. Slugged the bore, .432. Bought the NOE 319 grain mold (434-319-RF) that has two crimp grooves. When seated to the top groove, the cartridge has a OAL .005 under the maximum case length. Obviously this was designed to create the perfect OAL for feeding and loading into the tube magazine. Problem is, it won't do either! It won't load through the gate without getting stuck, and when attempting to chamber it, it pushes back the bullet from 2.540 (under the 2.57 max oal) to 2.485. Visible on the bullet sides are rifling marks, which tells me this thing has basically zero throat.

    What is the fix? Dump the bullet for a different design? Shorten the cases .06? How expensive to have a gunsmith open the throat? (but that still wouldn't fix the "stuck in the loading door problem)

    Is this normal for the 444?
    Need advice fixing a coleman appliance? Maybe I can help!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    The loading gate snugness suggests to me that there's an issue with the boolit diameter expanding the case mouth when seated.

    I would first seat a boolit much shallower, and see if the chambering issue disappeared.

    If all is well with the shallower seating, I would go with a boolit that had a different nose profile, the slightly file out the loading gate opening (a few thousandths of an inch should do it).

    You can also do a chamber/throat cast (CerroSafe) to determine if your barrel needs to be throated.


    .

    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  3. #3
    Try a different nose profile, some revolver shapes don't want to work. This is the heavyweight I use in my Winchester 444 http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...43-335GG-D.png. This was a J D Jones mold I had for years. Tom and I added 2 more crimping grooves so it would work in lever actions as well. It functions good in 44's and in 444's. Hope this helps.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I should clarify the loading gate problem - it's too long to make the turn, not getting stuck on the sides.
    Need advice fixing a coleman appliance? Maybe I can help!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    On that accurate mold, what does "front band tolerance negative" mean?
    Need advice fixing a coleman appliance? Maybe I can help!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    My first steps would be to find what will chamber and length found. Lead boolits with black Sharpie colored all over can be your friend. Hornady Lever brass is trimmed to 2.065" with the 265 FTX, that big 315 with that ogive appears to have guided you right to a nice rabbit hole. You have established a good starting point of 2.485", keep backing off .010" till no marking, then do the math on brass. Also just dropping into chamber to find length then worry about loading gate issue second. If the Hornady length works remember less volume more pressure, starting loads, starting loads! Also all the Marlin levers here were gutted and one of the many things done internally is to polish inside of receiver on ramp area north of loading gate and remove knife edge from loading gate. Factory as issued eats my big fat hot dog fingers up.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    If it feeds factory ammo then you need a nose design that is close to the same. The problems you describe are the same types of problem that an 1886 Winchester in 50 EX has. The nose of the bullet has to be shaped to allow it to go into the mag tube, if it's too fat it won't go. Same with the chamber and the bullet hitting the rifling.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master bosterr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dschuttig View Post
    On that accurate mold, what does "front band tolerance negative" mean?
    It means the front band won't be larger than .430 but can be smaller thus "negative tolerance". Tom will cut the mold this way if you request it.

  9. #9
    Don't overthink this, I learned years ago with a 45 auto, when a certain bullet profile gives trouble, change bullets. Now that I think about it, the same can be said about women.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dschuttig View Post
    I should clarify the loading gate problem - it's too long to make the turn, not getting stuck on the sides.
    What John Taylor said above...….

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    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I guess I'm just surprised that the bullet won't work, since it seems it was designed for this gun. I really didn't want to trim any brass since you can't add it back later, but my some weird stroke of luck I found a bunch of Hornady short cases in the range brass bucket today. That combined with the ten or twelve I already had should be plenty to tinker around with...
    Need advice fixing a coleman appliance? Maybe I can help!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Does your 444 have a correctly installed bulged style magazine tube? Some of the WFN bullets have feeding issues in the Marlin because of the profile.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy

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    My 444 has a short throat also, I seat the bullets a bit deeper than I would have thought. After seating deeper, no problem.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Tell me what that means? I'm not sure what a bulged magazine tube is
    Need advice fixing a coleman appliance? Maybe I can help!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dschuttig View Post
    Tell me what that means? I'm not sure what a bulged magazine tube is
    Google it for a pic, but the magazine tube should have a bulge on the left side for clearance for long cartridges to make the turn. You have to take the forearm off to see it.
    Last edited by Moleman-; 03-15-2020 at 10:27 PM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Second the polishing,chamfering or stoning the loading port on the receiver. Especially on the inside of the port. Pinched fingers are no fun. I also did the gate on the loading port. Frank

  17. #17
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman- View Post
    Google it for a pic, but the magazine tube should have a bulge on the left side for clearance for long cartridges to make the turn. You have to take the forearm off to see it.

    It's quite possible that somebody removed the magazine tube for whatever reason, and failed to re-install it with the bulge oriented to the right (as sighting down the barrel).

    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    It's quite possible that somebody removed the magazine tube for whatever reason, and failed to re-install it with the bulge oriented to the right (as sighting down the barrel).

    .
    Not possible, the inside of the forearm is relieved on the left inside to clear the bulge in the mag tube.

    BB

  19. #19
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
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    Look at a factory loaded 444 remington 240g jhp or hornady 265g jfn. These two bullet profiles give you a good idea of what will cycle in a 444 marlin levergun. Long and or wide nose boolits are usually going to be a problem. Accurate has a 265g mold that is listed for the marlin 444. I have one and the boolits cycle fine when crimped in the groove.

    BB

  20. #20
    This is my favorite medium weight http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=43-270F-D.png for the Redhawk and crimped over the front driving band 444 and it feeds perfectly. It's accurate in both.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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