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Thread: Which type of traditional ML rifle do you like the most, and which shoots best?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    GARD72977's Avatar
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    I usually agree with everything Waksupi says but............

    I bought a smothbore from NorthStar West. The gun was built by Waksupi. I really like the looks of the gun. I just never enjoyed the smoothbore. I would get some exposure to one before I laid out the cash.
    Last edited by GARD72977; 03-16-2020 at 07:36 AM.
    " If you cant do it with a 308 , you dont need to do it!

  2. #22
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by GARD72977 View Post
    I usually agree with everything Waksupi says but............

    I bought a smothbore from NorthStar West. The gun was built by Waksupi. I really like the looks of the gun. I just never enjoyed the smoothbore. I would get some exposure to one before I laid out the cash.
    I just put my self in the mindset I was going to learn to shoot them well. I put away my rifles for a year, and shot every competition with the smooth bores. By the end of the season, it was second nature. Some fall in love with them, some don't.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Which one I enjoy most? That is kind of like asking which grand child I love the most. I can say this though. Out of my collection & it is not a Muzzle loader,
    I really like my 54 cal powder loading Sharps.

    Fly

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    I just put my self in the mindset I was going to learn to shoot them well. I put away my rifles for a year, and shot every competition with the smooth bores. By the end of the season, it was second nature. Some fall in love with them, some don't.
    I once heard the secret to accuracy with a smooth bore is the tacks. A fellow told me that whenever he won a match with his, he would add another brass tack. And sure enough, every tack he added improved the accuracy. Once it was mostly covered in tacks, it was deadly accurate and seldom missed. So that must be the secret to smoothbore shooting.

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  5. #25
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Last year, I hankered for a return to muzzle loader shooting and was hot to buy or build. My eye fell upon a fine underhammer but a club where I would shoot some competition told me that underhamlmers were verboten at their matches; not traditional. Next I negotiated for a mule ear lock rifle by a maker in New Mexico but that deal fell through when I was told, you guessed it, verboten, not traditional. There examples of both guns in a local museum of early fur trappers of the upper midwest. Oh well, if I get the urge again, I will simply get a hunting rifle of the type I desire and not worry about the matches.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Some time back I might have answered the favorite rifle would be the one I was holding at that time. Now it would be my left hand Beck-style 58 with a Rice barrel and Chambers lock. I commissioned a friend to build it for me and he did a superb job. Except for the barrel and lock, he made everything else, stock, trigger and trigger guard, side plate, buttplate, sights, ramrod tip, wedges, escutcheons. I wanted an iron- mounted rifle, even though an "expert" told me that Beck never made a gun with iron furniture. The rifle is tastefully decorated with coin silver Masonic emblems, a bit of wire inlay, and some engraving. I need more time behind the buttplate, but I can tell you the rifle will shoot far better than I can hold it.
    NRA Life
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  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy
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    All my muzzleloaders are mostly British military pattern guns. A mix of flint and percussion, smooth bore and rifled, original and reproduction. A friend who is a world class shot lent me a couple of books. Those Limeys had a pretty good handle on what works almost 200 years ago. An Enfield P-58 Naval rifle is amazingly accurate. But my doomsday, TEOWAWKI, would be a Northwest Trade musket, or the next best thing, a Brown Bess. They can outlaw primers but they can't outlaw rocks. Two hundred pounds of Kentucky cave dirt will still yield a pound of saltpetre. While limited by range, a smoothbore musket has the flexibility to kill anything that walks crawls or flies pretty efficiently.

    Hand-book for Hythe: Comprising a Familiar Explanation of the Law of Projectiles, and an Introd. to the System of Musketry

    Rifle ammunition, notes on the manufactures connected therewith, as conducted in the Royal arsenal, Woolwich
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    Last edited by one-eyed fat man; 03-17-2020 at 11:31 AM.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Hanshi's Avatar
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    Anything "longrifle" works for me and it has to be flint. My best offhand rifle was a, now absent, .50 Va. flintlock with 42" barrel. Muzzle heavy and 9 pounds it it held rock steady on target as long as I didn't aim for too long. But there are three flintlocks that fit me perfectly and are a joy to carry and shoot. 1. Lancaster .45 X 13/16" X 36". 2. SMR .36 x 3/4' x 38". 3. A York inspired .50 X "B" wgt X 38" rb Rice barrel. But the .36" .45 has killed at least as many deer as all the others combined. All three are light and friendly. I have to mention, however, my .62 smoothbore flintlock. Straight oct to rnd 38" barrel with rear sight. I was surprised with the accuracy from the start using prb and it kills deer just fine.
    .36 SMR.

    .45 Lancaster.

    .50.

    .62 smoothbore.
    Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    As to smoothbores, match shooting sometimes sets up standards or rules that are questionable. One local collector of Trade guns claimed that some sort of rudimentary rear sight was added afterward on at least half or the guns he has seen, No sights but a lot of domed tang screws are seen that are indexed such that the screw slot just happens to align with the front sight. I finally got disgusted and built a "smooth rifle" which I showed in a picture with a grouse. While not quite a true smooth rifle as the barrel is a fowler type, the stock is patterned after a Beck rifle and it uses a Siler lock as found on rifles. Sights one the barrels like as on any rifle. It is 20 gauge and I use a .600 ball. With care in loading and ball selection I got a 3 shot 2 1/2" group at 75 yards with it. The sights make quite a difference. AS part of the loading procedure I put a dimple in the mold and always put the parting line toward the sight. Made sure each ball was loaded the same. I also found that too thick of patching was counter productive. May have damaged the ball? AS smooth bores do not take a spin, I think that one has to be very selective. Mostly I used shot in the thing however. With the lighter barrel it is a lot easier to carry.

    DEP

  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have about a dozen of em, and I handle some more than others, but the one I shoot the most is definitely the .56 smoothbore Renegade.
    KE4GWE - - - - - - Colt 1860, it just feels right.

  11. #31
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by one-eyed fat man View Post
    All my muzzleloaders are mostly British military pattern guns. A mix of flint and percussion, smooth bore and rifled, original and reproduction. A friend who is a world class shot lent me a couple of books. Those Limeys had a pretty good handle on what works almost 200 years ago. An Enfield P-58 Naval rifle is amazingly accurate. But my doomsday, TEOWAWKI, would be a Northwest Trade musket, or the next best thing, a Brown Bess. They can outlaw primers but they can't outlaw rocks. Two hundred pounds of Kentucky cave dirt will still yield a pound of saltpetre. While limited by range, a smoothbore musket has the flexibility to kill anything that walks crawls or flies pretty efficiently.

    Hand-book for Hythe: Comprising a Familiar Explanation of the Law of Projectiles, and an Introd. to the System of Musketry

    Rifle ammunition, notes on the manufactures connected therewith, as conducted in the Royal arsenal, Woolwich
    We used to do hunt or starve river trips of from 3-5 days duration. The first year was a mix of firearms, mostly rifles. The next year and thereafter, just about everyone had smooth bores. We found out you eat a lot better with a scatter gun.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  12. #32
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by one-eyed fat man View Post
    All my muzzleloaders are mostly British military pattern guns. A mix of flint and percussion, smooth bore and rifled, original and reproduction. A friend who is a world class shot lent me a couple of books. Those Limeys had a pretty good handle on what works almost 200 years ago. An Enfield P-58 Naval rifle is amazingly accurate. But my doomsday, TEOWAWKI, would be a Northwest Trade musket, or the next best thing, a Brown Bess. They can outlaw primers but they can't outlaw rocks. Two hundred pounds of Kentucky cave dirt will still yield a pound of saltpetre. While limited by range, a smoothbore musket has the flexibility to kill anything that walks crawls or flies pretty efficiently.

    Hand-book for Hythe: Comprising a Familiar Explanation of the Law of Projectiles, and an Introd. to the System of Musketry

    Rifle ammunition, notes on the manufactures connected therewith, as conducted in the Royal arsenal, Woolwich
    Consider who used the NWT and you get into the fact that it was literally a survival gun. I have heard the claim that those found in the Rainy River on the Canadian border and part of the fur trade travel route were loaded with shot. Don't discount the use of swan or goose shot as it was called back then for its effectiveness up close on game the size of deer even. At one time #4 buck was called swan shot and Goose shot was about BB.

    DEP

  13. #33
    Boolit Mold
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    I like the Thompson Center .50 cal Rifle that I built form a kit that I bought in the NAVY BX. Have shot thousands of rounds thru it both round ball and conical and they all go where Im shooting. It has enough power to take down everything up to a Moose and can shoot powder puff loads with paper patched smaller buckshot of lead for small game, even have taken birds with it loading up some #2 shot. Its versatile. Used too keep the Brass Hardware nice and shiny but laziness and old age have given it a nice patina. Its Heavy but with a sling I can carry it all day, some days. That's all I need. Well that and my Thermos.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    No need to upload my pixs. Only own T/Cs. Everybody knows what they look like.
    The most accurate of my brace is a T/c Hawken percussion mid caliber? 54 that was custom built to order many years back. It's 54 factory barrel is so labeled a: Round Ball Only shooter. To get that better than average accuracy out to a distance beyond my eye sight requires a full house charging of 2-FF and a tight .535 ball. Unlike so many rifles I've witnessed. This rifle is truly a one shot one kill. The last trophy White Tail I took with the 54 weighed 234 field dressed. Quite the site walking up to that dandy animal laying in a abandon hay field shot once and showing a remarkable pass thru the ribs considering the 117 yard distance and large girth of the animal. Don't shoot it much anymore. To old. To tired. And I bruise to easily now. I prefer to tote its littl Brother these days. A T/c Hawken 45 cal. shooting patch ball. Still dropping Bucks in the Fall but no longer those one in a lifetime one's. Tasty Spike'ers take up the space in my freezer now..
    "JUST A OLD DEPLORABLE THAT'S IRREDEEMABLE."

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Wow guys, I appreciate all your sharing on this post.

  16. #36
    Boolit Bub
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    For me it is a Iassic Hanes Pen long rifle with a Rice 42 inch 50 cal swamped barrel and a Chambers flintlock.
    It was built by Jim Turpin of Overland Park, Ks. It is very accurate if I do my part and is light to carry.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by william l evans View Post
    For me it is a Iassic Hanes Pen long rifle with a Rice 42 inch 50 cal swamped barrel and a Chambers flintlock.
    It was built by Jim Turpin of Overland Park, Ks. It is very accurate if I do my part and is light to carry.
    Proper!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check