WidenersLee PrecisionRotoMetals2Inline Fabrication
Titan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters SupplyADvertise hereRepackbox

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 48

Thread: Crimping for 9mm

  1. #1

    Crimping for 9mm

    I recovered some 9mm bullets after the snow thawed and I can see an extra ring in the bullet that is from the case mouth.

    I use the Lee FCD and don't have any problem with leading at all. I do notice that during load development I get primer intrusion into the firing pin channel well before reaching max loads. I realize with an inertia pin such intrusion is not necessarily excessive pressure but it is a nuissance when bits of metal shave off and clog the channel. I have trouble trying to mimic factory velocities and or POI. Factory loads will exhibit the same extrusion but mild enough that it doesn't shave off metal.

    So, would a lighter crimp keep pressures down so that I could get a little more velocity before the primer intrusion sets in?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200313_121011-1.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	22.8 KB 
ID:	258536

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    1,108
    Stop using that "Factory crimp die" and get a proper taper crimp die so your headspace stays at a correct length. What you are doing may allow the cartridge to wedge into the end of the chamber for excessive headspace and increase pressures by dangerous amounts.

  3. #3
    I'm pretty sure the FCD that comes with the Lee 4-die pistol set is a taper-crimp die. It is certainly not a roll crimp - so I shouldn't be having any headspacing problems.

  4. #4
    Yep. From Lee's website:

    Revolver dies roll crimp with no limit as to the amount. A perfect taper crimp is applied to auto-loader rounds.
    Last edited by Black Jaque Janaviac; 03-13-2020 at 02:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Bartlesville, OK
    Posts
    90
    Exactly. I have seen other posters suggest deep sixing the FCD. In no way does it roll crimp on any of the autoloader dies. I don't know where this rumor got started. I don't have a taper crimp die, but this comment from LEE's site about the TCD leads one to believe it would roll the case mouth more so than the FCD.

    " These dies offer little or no advantage when used with 1986 or newer Lee Dies as the crimp angle is already a modified taper crimp. Jacketed bullets must have a crimp groove"

    If it needs a crimp groove, it likely is rolling the case mouth into it.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


    Walks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,974
    I use the lightest taper crimp possible, just to keep the bullet secure in it's position in the case.
    For revolver I use only a roll crimp, only as heavy as needed.

    What I can't figure out is how we kept bullets secure in auto cases Before taper crimp dies came out in the late 1970's ?

    For the main Three; 9mmLuger, .40S&W and .45ACP I adjust the Taper crimp to just "Kiss" the case mouth. Then load 10rds and put 7-10rds into the Mag. Fire 3rds and remove remaining rounds from mag. Check cartridge over all length. if C.O.L. is shorter then pre firing loaded C.O.L., I increase Taper Crimp only until bullet is secure in case. It's a simple trial and error. It does assume all cartridge cases are the same length or close to it.
    I HATE auto-correct


    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    5,400
    Try switching your brand of primer to one with a harder cup , it will resist flowing into the primer pin hole better . Try CCI . Discard any brass with loose primers pockets...the primers should not just slip easily in the pocket... you want a good grip on the primer or the 9mm Luger pressure pushes it out .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    5,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Walks View Post
    I use the lightest taper crimp possible, just to keep the bullet secure in it's position in the case.
    For revolver I use only a roll crimp, only as heavy as needed.

    What I can't figure out is how we kept bullets secure in auto cases Before taper crimp dies came out in the late 1970's ?

    For the main Three; 9mmLuger, .40S&W and .45ACP I adjust the Taper crimp to just "Kiss" the case mouth. Then load 10rds and put 7-10rds into the Mag. Fire 3rds and remove remaining rounds from mag. Check cartridge over all length. if C.O.L. is shorter then pre firing loaded C.O.L., I increase Taper Crimp only until bullet is secure in case. It's a simple trial and error. It does assume all cartridge cases are the same length or close to it.
    I started reloading in 1967 and taper crimp dies had been around a lot longer than that , I'm sure they were not invented in the late 1970's , I'm still using the CH steel 9mm Luger dies I bought in 1967 to load ammo for my dad's WWII Walther P-38 ... and it came with a taper crimp die and I'm sure the 9mm die set had sat on the dealers shelf two or three years...almost no interest in the 9mm luger back then .
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by la5676 View Post
    Exactly. I have seen other posters suggest deep sixing the FCD. In no way does it roll crimp on any of the autoloader dies. I don't know where this rumor got started. I don't have a taper crimp die, but this comment from LEE's site about the TCD leads one to believe it would roll the case mouth more so than the FCD.

    " These dies offer little or no advantage when used with 1986 or newer Lee Dies as the crimp angle is already a modified taper crimp. Jacketed bullets must have a crimp groove"

    If it needs a crimp groove, it likely is rolling the case mouth into it.
    Huh. I never saw that on Lee's website. Probably because I only have FCDs for either my revolvers or my autos. The FCD included in the 4-die set applies a taper crimp. But it is considered an FCD because it has the carbide sizing ring.
    But you're right - I don't know where the silly rumor that Lee's 9mm FCD (designed for semi-auto pistol) would apply a roll crimp? That would be monumentally stupid on Lee's part.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    6,360
    Just like any other taper crimp die, the Lee FCD can be adjusted to crimp too much. You want the boolit to be held firmly by the case. With a 9mm(and most other autoloading cartridges) the boolit is held by the case wall tension rather than the crimp. Over crimping does nothing to improve this.
    I use the Lee FCD on all my handgun cartridges. I adjust the crimp on autoloading cartridges to just take the bell out of the case mouth. This is easily accomplished with the Lee FCD due to it's design. No need to loosen the die and lock it back down repeatedly in a search for just the right spot. A simple turn of the knob and you are there.
    This can be accomplished on the first cartridge you load.
    Since I load mixed brass and often times use fairly large diameter boolits, having the FCD in the finish crimp station keeps all my ammunition working like a champ for me.
    I have never had a boolit sized down too much by any of my FCD dies.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Burnt Fingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    756
    The carbide factory crimp die is the cause of more problems than any other die I've seen used.

    That carbide ring will swage down lead bullets to way undersize.
    NRA Benefactor.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    6,360
    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Fingers View Post
    The carbide factory crimp die is the cause of more problems than any other die I've seen used.

    That carbide ring will swage down lead bullets to way undersize.
    It never has for me. Maybe I managed to get some with larger carbide rings than most other people.
    People claim Lee equipment is inconsistent. Perhaps this is one of those times.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,860
    The carbide factory crimp die has a different feel when adjusting and you have to check carefully when setting up your dies , thy feel differently on the press and it seems that if you are used to traditional crimp dies you may over crimp the carbide ring will remove all flare and most rounds will chamber in most guns with out running the crimp sleeve down , back the crimp off to none and then work up to the amount you want , they just take a little getting used to , but I prefer them in most of my auto pistol ammunition

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Fingers View Post
    The carbide factory crimp die is the cause of more problems than any other die I've seen used.

    That carbide ring will swage down lead bullets to way undersize.
    I have heard of this - however that is not a problem in this particular instance. I am just wondering if backing off on the crimp might reduce pressures a tad.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master gnostic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow...
    Posts
    573
    I set my crimp die so that the loaded round, is in spec as shown in the loading manual. My primers aren't cratered and I'm getting zero lead in any of my pistols...

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,242
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jaque Janaviac View Post
    I have heard of this - however that is not a problem in this particular instance. I am just wondering if backing off on the crimp might reduce pressures a tad.
    No. Unless you are crimping to some kind of extreme levels, adjusting your crimp will not lower pressures. A taper crimp isn't even a crimp, at least it isn't meant to be. It's only purpose is to remove the bell, and maybe just a touch more for sure function. What kind of primers are you using? Federal 100 primers are soft, and will flatten/extrude more than a CCI 500 all else equal.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pleasant Hope MO
    Posts
    1,174
    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    No. Unless you are crimping to some kind of extreme levels, adjusting your crimp will not lower pressures. A taper crimp isn't even a crimp, at least it isn't meant to be. It's only purpose is to remove the bell, and maybe just a touch more for sure function. What kind of primers are you using? Federal 100 primers are soft, and will flatten/extrude more than a CCI 500 all else equal.

    Good advice here, the neck tension is what holds the bullet in the case. I use WSP primers and get rid of the Lee FCD.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,860
    I have never considered crimp as a contributing factor on the primer in auto pistols , not saying it doesn't affect it but what you describe I would consider to be more a consequence of the shape and size of the firing pin and firing pin hole in the slide , and or how hard the primer is , and or the pressure of the loaded cartridge produces in that particular barrel . The bullet weight , diameter , amount of bullet in the case , and powder selection and charge are what I look at that raise pressure .
    The crimp on a cases that headspace on the mouth can't be so heavy that you don't headspace correctly , this can be difficult because most autos will headspace off the extractor enough to fire but probably not headspace correctly , but my concern is to keep the bullet at proper OAL ( not push back in the case on the feed ramp or in a jam ) in other words to stand the rough treatment that the cartridge gets in an auto . But I don't load for maximum velocity in my autos for 99% of my reloads I load for function and accuracy an don't much care what the velocity is. I don't hunt with mine and for defense I use factory loads so I have no need to press the envelope.
    I have used the word "I" in all this only because it's what works for me , not because I have all the answers or even the best answer.
    Last edited by onelight; 03-14-2020 at 09:21 AM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

    mdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    So. Orygun
    Posts
    6,300
    One of the problems with Lee's FCD for semi-auto cartridges is when too much crimp is applied, the reloader doesn't see the results. Most often too much taper crimp results in a case bulge. So, when there is too much crimp is applied and the case bulges, the bulge is hidden, swaged down, by the sizing ring as the cartridge is removed from the die, but the screwed up neck tension and or distorted crimp remains.
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,860
    Quote Originally Posted by mdi View Post
    One of the problems with Lee's FCD for semi-auto cartridges is when too much crimp is applied, the reloader doesn't see the results. Most often too much taper crimp results in a case bulge. So, when there is too much crimp is applied and the case bulges, the bulge is hidden, swaged down, by the sizing ring as the cartridge is removed from the die, but the screwed up neck tension and or distorted crimp remains.
    I have never experienced that but I suppose it could happen.
    But some of us can screw up a crimp with any brand die on occasion .

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check