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Thread: Found this Sharps Borchardt at a gun show a couple of weeks ago

  1. #21
    Boolit Bub
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    Don,

    I will consider that, especially depending on what I find when I pull the stock off. I am handy with wood but in a "frame a house" kind of way. The finesse of finish/fine work on wood has escaped me to date. Now working with metal, that's another story.

    Great info and suggestions guys. I can't say thanks enough.

    -Ron

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Ron if you decide to run that rifle as is, you might want to slug the barrel or do a chamber cast that takes in the first inch or so of the rifling. My military borchardt has the long chamber and the bore and groove is a bit generous. I trim 2.4 inch cases back to 2.3 for that rifle and load them with 85 grains of 1f.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
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    The chamber and first 8 or so inch of barrel is a view that should be of utmost interest.

    Were it me ... and I have done this with two old rollers and a 1873 Winchester ... I would strip it down and with patch's stuffed tightly into this area ... inject them with Turpentine till all are soaking wet ... allow to soak for a week ... injecting the patch's to keep em wet ... followed by a brisk copper or brass bristle brush. Swab it out with tight patch's and watch for lead slivers. Continue till no more lead shows ... my '73' took 4 bouts like this to make it come clean ... chambered in 38 WCF.

    Very cool find and adoption. I am Jealous. Found mine in Alaska of all places ... sure wish I had tried harder to adopt.
    Last edited by bigted; 03-18-2020 at 10:20 PM.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  4. #24
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    Ron if you decide to run that rifle as is, you might want to slug the barrel or do a chamber cast that takes in the first inch or so of the rifling. My military borchardt has the long chamber and the bore and groove is a bit generous. I trim 2.4 inch cases back to 2.3 for that rifle and load them with 85 grains of 1f.
    Yes, I'll be doing that before I start reloading for it. I've got about three other rifles that are in line in front of it though (all need to be slugged).

    Quote Originally Posted by bigted View Post
    The chamber and first 8 or so inch of barrel is a view that should be of utmost interest.

    Were it me ... and I have done this with two old rollers and a 1873 Winchester ... I would strip it down and with patch's stuffed tightly into this area ... inject them with Turpentine till all are soaking wet ... allow to soak for a week ... injecting the patch's to keep em wet ... followed by a brisk copper or brass bristle brush. Swab it out with tight patch's and watch for lead slivers. Continue till no more lead shows ... my '73' took 4 bouts like this to make it come clean ... chambered in 38 WCF.

    Very cool find and adoption. I am Jealous. Found mine in Alaska of all places ... sure wish I had tried harder to adopt.
    Sounds like a lot of work. I have an old Outers Foul-Out that removes lead by electrolysis somehow. I just figured I'd get it fired up and let it sit over night.

    Thanks,

    -Ron

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    I think you should throw that cleaning rod away, or give it to me so I can dispose of it for you.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    For bores I think might have extreme fouling, or lead build up I simply run a very tight patch through them using Lead remover patches from Kleenbore or Birchwood Casey. I use a jag that fits the bore or use cloth patches under the lead remover patches to build it up until it's tight enough. I want the fit tight enough that I have to use a rubber mallet to tap the rod into the bore to start. Then I push it through and when it comes out I remove the patch and pull the rod back.
    I can often see shards of lead shaped like the grooves if it's a leaded bore. So I repeat until I see no more traces of lead. At that point I run a last patch in, and run it back and forth inside the bore numerous times. I've had bores that looked like the proverbial dirt road that came out crisp, bright, and shiny when I finished this process. And it only takes about 5-10 minutes.
    I buy the lead remover cloth in sheet packages and cut it into patches the size needed. It's cheaper and better than buying their precut patches.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by iomskp View Post
    I think you should throw that cleaning rod away, or give it to me so I can dispose of it for you.
    I am always amazed at how thoughtful members on this forum can be.

    Marlinman93, I've never tried the lead remover patches but I have used the Lewis lead remover system on a couple of my old revolvers. Wouldn't something like that work here as well?

    -Ron

  8. #28
    Very envious had chance to shoot several of them that had been mad in 1920's - 1960's varmit guns. both of the ones I shot a lot the 22-250 and 22-30SHP were on comercial actions the 22-250 had doublesets. Yes ai know their existance is seen by some as the a mortal sin but I did not wreck them and I did enjoy my time being able to shoot them.
    Great gun great find I know you will enjoy it

    Sent from my HP Chromebook x360 11 G1 EE using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Scrapmetal, the pure gum spirits of turpentine on a flannel patch works very well, and is basically pretty cheap, and isn't abrasive to the softer steel on these old rifles.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    Scrapmetal, the pure gum spirits of turpentine on a flannel patch works very well, and is basically pretty cheap, and isn't abrasive to the softer steel on these old rifles.
    Good to know. Thanks much.

    -Ron

  11. #31
    Boolit Master uscra112's Avatar
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    An old gunsmithing book I have recommended boiling wood like that in a solution of trisodium phosphate. My modern method is to run it through a dishwasher set as hot as it will go, using TSP in the dispenser. Pulls old oil and dirt out like nobody's business, and gives you a clean set of surfaces to work from when gluing or inlaying repairs. I've lost count of how many grimy old singleshot stocks I've done this way. Nothing can beat it.
    Eleutheromaniac

  12. #32
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    As you may have guessed mine is missing the rod, it was also missing the rear sight I have replaced the rear sight I am now looking for a rod, no hurry but I am in the process of refurbishing the whole rifle including the wood and all the lettering including the Chinese scroll on the barrel.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Might be tough to find a dishwasher that would hold that long forearm. And if you only did the buttstock then the forearm might be tough to ever get a matching finish on. I'd use acetone and whitening powder to pull out oils from the wood if i wanted to refinish the stocks. But personally I think refinishing the wood is a bad choice. It will ruin the value of this old gun, and I'd choose to do a careful stock repair and try to match that to the existing wood, not make it all look new.
    Now if the plan is to use this action and do a complete build, then all that doesn't matter. But I'd rather keep it as it is since there's fewer and fewer original Borchardts out there.

  14. #34
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    I believe before refinishing the original wood I would call tree bone or BRC rifle company and order new wood in the grade desired and fit and finish it to pretty and set the originals back as is. If you going to do a complete build then it the new wood is a plus also

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    Scrapmetal, the pure gum spirits of turpentine on a flannel patch works very well, and is basically pretty cheap, and isn't abrasive to the softer steel on these old rifles.
    Thanks Don. You are the one I learned this tip from. Works like a charm. I guess wording is everything ... just glad the message came through.

    I have never harmed an old firearm using this method. If any accidentally touch's another part or wood ... it does no harm. I would be hesitant to trust any "modern" methods on the precious old metal of an heirloom piece.

    My greatest find and ""resurrection" is an old Sporting Remington Rolling block re-re-chambered from a shorter 40 cal to 40-65 (40 WCF). Onec the lead mine was so cleaned up ... this old bore actually shines and has great rifling. Shoots fantastic.
    Last edited by bigted; 03-21-2020 at 12:34 PM.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    An old gunsmithing book I have recommended boiling wood like that in a solution of trisodium phosphate. My modern method is to run it through a dishwasher set as hot as it will go, using TSP in the dispenser. Pulls old oil and dirt out like nobody's business, and gives you a clean set of surfaces to work from when gluing or inlaying repairs. I've lost count of how many grimy old singleshot stocks I've done this way. Nothing can beat it.
    I'm still in the doghouse for cleaning up a pair of cylinder heads off a Harley shovelhead in her dishwasher. A guy's got to do what a guy's got to do though...

    Quote Originally Posted by iomskp View Post
    As you may have guessed mine is missing the rod, it was also missing the rear sight I have replaced the rear sight I am now looking for a rod, no hurry but I am in the process of refurbishing the whole rifle including the wood and all the lettering including the Chinese scroll on the barrel.
    Sounds like a neat project. I hope to see it some time. If I happen across the proper rod I'll be sure to let you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    Might be tough to find a dishwasher that would hold that long forearm. And if you only did the buttstock then the forearm might be tough to ever get a matching finish on. I'd use acetone and whitening powder to pull out oils from the wood if i wanted to refinish the stocks. But personally I think refinishing the wood is a bad choice. It will ruin the value of this old gun, and I'd choose to do a careful stock repair and try to match that to the existing wood, not make it all look new.
    Now if the plan is to use this action and do a complete build, then all that doesn't matter. But I'd rather keep it as it is since there's fewer and fewer original Borchardts out there.
    "First, do no harm" - especially on an old piece like this. I want to keep it as original as possible but also see how well I can get it to perform. Kind of contrary but I'll try and balance it out the best I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    I believe before refinishing the original wood I would call tree bone or BRC rifle company and order new wood in the grade desired and fit and finish it to pretty and set the originals back as is. If you going to do a complete build then it the new wood is a plus also
    I was looking over some ads in the latest Black Powder Cartridge news and Single Shot Exchange the other night and started to consider seeing what it would cost to get a replacement stock and forend. Thats about as far as I've gone with that at this point. Seems to make plenty of sense.

    I'm a little unsure of just what direction I am going to take this rifle. I like the idea of a competition shooter, the only problem being is I live in the "black hole" of competition shooting far eastern Nebraska. Not a whole lot going on around here that I know of anyway. Be a shame to get it all gussied up with no place to go.

    I could just patch it up as well as possible and just shoot it for enjoyment and to make others at the range jealous. On the other end of the spectrum I could also take it apart and draw up plans to fabricate a new one from scratch. That would be a neat project to keep me in the shop and out of trouble for a while, not that I have the time right now but the possibility is there.

    -Ron

  17. #37
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Depending on where in eastern Nebraska you are I suppose, but there are some matches just across the South Dakota and Kansas borders where you could use that rifle. Plus the Alliance Rifle Club host's 3 big matches a year, plus monthly matches usually starting in April at their Hoffland range 10 miles east of Alliance. There also have been rumors of some matches getting fired up and going on a range down around Grand Island, but I haven't seen anything official as of yet.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    That rifle should be OK to compete in the Cast Bullet Assn. matches in Sioux City. I used a Swedish 1867 rolling block in one of their matches, also present was a trapdoor and a 71/84 Mauser. If your rifle has a bayonet lug , it should qualify as a military issue rifle.

    I'm not sure of this year's shoot dates, with all the virus disruptions, but if you want info, I can get you in touch with someone that runs the shoot.

  19. #39
    Boolit Bub
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    I have a MVA tang sight for Borchart and works fine. It extends behind the metal over the wood.

  20. #40
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    I found a Borchardt military wreck in much worse condition than the one pictured. I patched the wood up as best I could, stained the patches so they matched the grungy brown of the original and let it go at that.

    The bore was so clogged with rust it couldnít let a cleaning patch through. I lined it with an 18Ē twist TJ liner and chambered it back to .45-70.

    I found the missing sight slider and am still looking for something for the receiver sling ring. The cleaning rod was gone, and loose ones are rare and expensive. I faked up the tip from Internet pictures with a lathe, drills, tap and knurling tool, and screwed on a piece of 3/16Ē steel rod, threading the other end to fit the first section of a modern takedown cleaning rod handle. The rod, as it fits under the barrel, is too short to push all the way through for cleaning.

    The target models that used tang sights had the rear tang milled out for a detachable extra long tang, with integral sight base, that was held in the mortise by a screw. I have a casting for the base, but didnít have the heart to machine the receiver. Borchardts in any original condition are rare. Maybe Iíll add the base to my overpolished varmint rifle receiver when I shoot the barrel out, and remake it into a Long Range blackpowder gun. Itís the only way Iíd ever be able to afford one.

    Mine shoots 540 grain grease grooves and 525 gr paper patch boolits very well with black powder, but that light rifle really backs off that boolit a right smart! Brings tears of joy to my eyes!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check