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Thread: Found this Sharps Borchardt at a gun show a couple of weeks ago

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    Found this Sharps Borchardt at a gun show a couple of weeks ago

    It found it's way home with me. It's in .45-70, the rifling looks very good for it's age. The stock has a repair right next to the receiver on one side and is cracked on the other. I need to find the best way to repair that as well as try and find if I can mount a tang sight on it.
    Sorry for the crappy pictures, when I get some time I'll take some better ones.















    -Ron
    Last edited by ScrapMetal; 03-15-2020 at 07:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Very, very cool. I know someone who can fix the stock for you.

    "Steve Zihn" <szihn@wyoming.com>

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Good find! Too bad so many of them were made into varmint rifles back in the 30's and 40's. Some day I'll find one, or a nice Peabody

  4. #4
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    That's a good looking Borchardt with a lot of finish left on it. Tough to find them that nice anymore.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A great find there. I have a reproduction by Al Story at BRC rifles. The brochardt is a great shooter (shame its not allowed for bpcr matches) MVA has the bases and staffs or send you rifles upper base to them for fitting of the sight. Another option is one of mvas period scopes on it, but this requires drilling and tapping 4 holes in the barrel on a fine old rifle

    The stock shouldn't be to hard to fix. Some thin epoxy and work into crack clamp snug. If you can open it a little with a small wood wedge coat receiver with release. OPen stocks crack and work in mixed epoxy. blow in as deep as possible with a rubber tipped blow gun. assemble on rifle and clamp down wiping excess from joint. I chill the 2 parts of the epoxy in the refrigerator over night. this gives a longer work time before curring starts. You want the epoxy to push out when clamped as this forms a completes air free bond. Accra glass works well and comes with coloring agents, black and brown. Brownells aslo sells dyes for epoxies that can be used to blend the perfect color. If the crack is still tight then the bond seam will be thin and hard to see when fixed

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatume View Post
    Very, very cool. I know someone who can fix the stock for you.

    "Steve Zihn" <szihn@wyoming.com>
    I'll keep him in mind. Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    A great find there. I have a reproduction by Al Story at BRC rifles. The brochardt is a great shooter (shame its not allowed for bpcr matches) MVA has the bases and staffs or send you rifles upper base to them for fitting of the sight. Another option is one of mvas period scopes on it, but this requires drilling and tapping 4 holes in the barrel on a fine old rifle

    The stock shouldn't be to hard to fix. Some thin epoxy and work into crack clamp snug. If you can open it a little with a small wood wedge coat receiver with release. OPen stocks crack and work in mixed epoxy. blow in as deep as possible with a rubber tipped blow gun. assemble on rifle and clamp down wiping excess from joint. I chill the 2 parts of the epoxy in the refrigerator over night. this gives a longer work time before curring starts. You want the epoxy to push out when clamped as this forms a completes air free bond. Accra glass works well and comes with coloring agents, black and brown. Brownells aslo sells dyes for epoxies that can be used to blend the perfect color. If the crack is still tight then the bond seam will be thin and hard to see when fixed
    I saw that MVA lists the bases for Borchardts but there isn't much room on this one to mount one. I'll try and post more and hopefully better pics tomorrow so you guys can see what I'm talking about.

    One thing I'm concerned with is that the stock feels like it has a hundred years worth of oil soaked in to it. Makes me unsure as to whether the epoxy will be able to get a good amount of adhesion.

    Oh, and I was aware that the Borchardts were not allowed in bpcr matches, it's that lack of external hammer thing apparently, but I don't see how that would make much difference.

    Thanks guys,

    -Ron

  7. #7
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Using some acetone on contact surfaces before applying epoxy is usually good enough to ensure a tight solid bond. I use plain old saran wrap over metal parts if I"m epoxying or gluing wood on the gun. I've occasionally had sticking issues with spots using release agent, and the wrap works better, and is faster too.
    It's always easier to clamp wood together, and ensure a good fit to the metal if you can clamp it in place on the gun. I use 24 hr. or at least 90 minute epoxy for stock repairs. I don't want to have to rush this type of repair, or it usually ends up going sideways. Plus slower drying epoxies are stronger than the 5 or 10 minute types.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The brocharts lock time is much faster than most of the hammer are. On mine when disassembled the upper plate slides out and can be replaced with the one for the tang sight. But mine is a reproduction by BRC.

    I also prefer a long cure epoxy for stock repairs and a thinner one also. Thinner is easier to work in to tight areas. I also chill the 2 parts before using, this can gain you another 15-30 mins working time. I like the saran wrap idea and will try that next repair I do.

    At some point you may want to consider working the oils out of the stock, it does soften the wood and also darkens it hiding grain and colors. It might be a really nice piece of wood there. Ice seen some garand and M14 military stocks that when cleaned up had very nice grain and colors

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    The "acetone and thin (long set) expoxy" are great suggestions. Thanks much.

    If the only issue is "lock time" it seems a bit arbitrary. I have to wonder if the lock times for all other single shots have been measured (as well as guns that have been modified) to see if the Borchardt really has that great of advantage. JMHO


    My photography skills are a bit rusty but these should give a better idea of what it's like.



    Picture of the crack. The wood is very loose there and I had to push it back in to place to make it as small as it looks. Without a doubt it will need repair.





    Sorry, you can't make out the entire "Old Reliable" on the barrel. Need another picture.



    Like I said, not much room for a tang and drilling might be a p.i.t.a. When I take the stock off for repair will be the time to do it though.



    No idea what the small plate with two screws is for.









    This is the repair on the opposite site of the stock from the crack. Poor aesthetics but seems fairly solid.



    The bore looks pretty good as well but I need to run a patch or two through it and get the bore scope out. No matter what I am super happy with my find even though I probably was too excited when I came across it and most likely overpaid a bit.

    Thanks for all the comments so far,

    -Ron
    Last edited by ScrapMetal; 03-15-2020 at 08:00 PM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMetal View Post



    No idea what the small plate with two screws is for.

    -Ron

    They are the forearm & lever spring screws.

    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  11. #11
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    Faster lock times become more important in offhand shooting. I'm sure the brocharts will beat any BPRC with a massive hammer. My money is on it aganist any exposed hammer gun.

    I really notice lock time with a Airgun shooting Sillhouette. You better have follow through ( some of it is just low FPS not lock time. )

    The rifle is very nice. It's on my never ending list.........
    " If you cant do it with a 308 , you dont need to do it!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro View Post
    They are the forearm & lever spring screws.

    .
    Thanks for the info. That'll definitely come in handy.


    Quote Originally Posted by GARD72977 View Post
    Faster lock times become more important in offhand shooting. I'm sure the brocharts will beat any BPRC with a massive hammer. My money is on it aganist any exposed hammer gun.

    I really notice lock time with a Airgun shooting Sillhouette. You better have follow through ( some of it is just low FPS not lock time. )

    The rifle is very nice. It's on my never ending list.........
    If it's truly a lot faster I can see where it would be more effective in off-hand.

    As far as being "on my list", my list is so large it's shorter and easier to list guns that AREN'T on it.

    -Ron

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    The trigger pull on some of those 78's is nothing short of a physical work out. Some were worked on and are a nice crisp 3 lbs. I have one of both varieties.
    You'll want to do some serious lead mining before you shoot it for accuracy, a lot of those have some pretty serious lead build up in the throat.
    You could fix that stock but it might not hold if you shoot it much.
    The MVA base is very short and will fit on that stub of a top tang.
    If you're interested in doing it, you have a pretty good basis for a custom build target rifle.
    Unfortunately those aren't legal for NRA silhouette, but they work very well for Black Powder Target rifle.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Nice find! I like the Borchardt's quite a lot. I have one built by Curt Hardcastle that I've shot in long range with. The only downside in my view is that spare parts are hard to get, that and I live in Canada and we don't have any gunsmith that is experienced with them.

    Chris.

  15. #15
    It's bigger than the bread basket! Very nice.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Since the Borchardt uses a through bolt to retain the buttstock it's not unusual to see cracks radiating from the upper tang. And likely the missing chunk on the right upper tang was from a crack that finally gave up and fell out. I'd remove all that wood filler and start by removing enough wood from that area to get a flat, clean surface to build from. Then cut a piece of wood from some plain straight grain walnut to fit a bit oversized. Epoxy it in place and then begin carving and shaping it down until it fits. Then hit it with a good dark stain to match the surrounding finish, and seal it with some Wipe On Poly satin to match.
    Borchardts used a later Sharps tang sight spacing that was the same as Marlins, and Marlin Ballard rifles at 1.125", so you can order a sight for a Marlin Ballard and D&T the tang to fit the spacing. Original Sharps rifles had two different spacings and the Marlin spacing was the short version.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Looking at your rifle made me think of these although I've never seen either rifle in person.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  18. #18
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    as a luthier, i do a lot of wood fine crack repairs by cleaning the crack with naphtha (lighter fluid) and allowing it to flash off, fill the crack with superfine acrylic powder (found at "beauty" supply stores) or baking soda or bone dust, wick in quality water thin CYA (cyanoacrylate "super glue", found in hobby shops, varying brand names, i buy "hot stuff" by the case). the glue will wick deep into the wood grain and may require another treatment to get the glue flush or higher with the crack's top. sandpaper it flush (i typically use a 120 grit emery board). the resulting cracked area will be stronger than the surrounding wood grain.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    The trigger pull on some of those 78's is nothing short of a physical work out. Some were worked on and are a nice crisp 3 lbs. I have one of both varieties.
    You'll want to do some serious lead mining before you shoot it for accuracy, a lot of those have some pretty serious lead build up in the throat.
    You could fix that stock but it might not hold if you shoot it much.
    The MVA base is very short and will fit on that stub of a top tang.
    If you're interested in doing it, you have a pretty good basis for a custom build target rifle.
    Unfortunately those aren't legal for NRA silhouette, but they work very well for Black Powder Target rifle.
    Black Powder Target rifle is probably what I'll be building it for. As far as the trigger pull goes, even though I haven't put a scale on it yet, it seems really reasonable. I'll post after I measure it FWIW.
    Good to know on the MVA tang as well. Guess I'm no where near done spending money (don't tell the wife )

    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    Since the Borchardt uses a through bolt to retain the buttstock it's not unusual to see cracks radiating from the upper tang. And likely the missing chunk on the right upper tang was from a crack that finally gave up and fell out. I'd remove all that wood filler and start by removing enough wood from that area to get a flat, clean surface to build from. Then cut a piece of wood from some plain straight grain walnut to fit a bit oversized. Epoxy it in place and then begin carving and shaping it down until it fits. Then hit it with a good dark stain to match the surrounding finish, and seal it with some Wipe On Poly satin to match.
    Borchardts used a later Sharps tang sight spacing that was the same as Marlins, and Marlin Ballard rifles at 1.125", so you can order a sight for a Marlin Ballard and D&T the tang to fit the spacing. Original Sharps rifles had two different spacings and the Marlin spacing was the short version.
    If I go with a repair like that I'll probably pin the new piece(s) to the old stock as well. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by rfd View Post
    as a luthier, i do a lot of wood fine crack repairs by cleaning the crack with naphtha (lighter fluid) and allowing it to flash off, fill the crack with superfine acrylic powder (found at "beauty" supply stores) or baking soda or bone dust, wick in quality water thin CYA (cyanoacrylate "super glue", found in hobby shops, varying brand names, i buy "hot stuff" by the case). the glue will wick deep into the wood grain and may require another treatment to get the glue flush or higher with the crack's top. sandpaper it flush (i typically use a 120 grit emery board). the resulting cracked area will be stronger than the surrounding wood grain.
    Good advice. I don't know if I could get away with that though. Even though the CA wicks everywhere (I know this only too well) it may require a little more surgery first.

    Thanks much guys.

    -Ron

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Scrapmetal, a maybe less expensive option to get your rifle into good competitive condition would be to have McGowen cut you a barrel contoured to the same as it wears now. Send the new barrel along with the rifle to Steve Baldwin to have him fit ,chamber, blue and instal sights on it. If you're handy with wood you can get a rough blank from Treebone to replace that buttstock.
    Steve and I visited about doing that very thing to my military Borchardt just last week while we were shooting in Phoenix at the Triple Crown matches.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

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